Salem Tier List Change Log

Plenty of alternatives, from Saberlot, Raikou (Lancer) and Altria Pendragon (Lancer Alter) crittage, to Chloe’s full NP spam. Then there’s a whole glut of NP2 Servants that come rather close, but have better(or should I say easier to set up) follow up, from Yagyu to Kiyohime (Lancer). But of course we count from NP1 for all of them, so that does not quite apply.

Then there’re the whole array of counter-Servants, such as Orion, Euryale, Jack, etc. Strong ST Servants like Ozymandias/Quetz/Scathach/etc.

The issue with Berserkers, and why that is a bit more murky when it comes to cross-Tier List mentions, is that you only need 1 of the top options for any of the classes. That’s a much less difficult task than having a top Servant in the right class.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. The options are so free and massive after all. Jeanne d’Arc (Alter) just really stands out here in that sense as her output is just that silly. Mind you, she’s getting a down arrow on the upcoming change log.

Edit: going to catch a few hours of sleep before JP update, will reply to any comments once I am back.

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Can you list some examples? I’m legitimately curious who you actually think fits better for this role that is a 4* unit or below, aside from Ridertoki. Just because everyone deals 2x damage against Berserkers, that doesn’t mean there isn’t a relative spectrum where some are going to do it a lot better than others.

I’m not going to put words in Sizzle’s mouth, but here are the criteria I use when optimizing for Berserker-killing:

  1. Powerful ST NP AND
  2. a) Powerful crit potential OR
    b) Access to repeatable NPs (either through NP charge or exceptional base NP gain)

The reasoning should be straightforward - in a post-break bar world, we can’t just delete Berserkers with a single NP, so we need multiple avenues of dealing high damage; the only way to accomplish that in this game is crits or NPs.

All of the “broken” welfares (Kintoki, Chloe, Shiki) pass check 1; Kintoki meets 2A and 2B, Chloe meets 2B (and maybe 2A), and Shiki meets 2B. Saber Lancelot meets both 2A and 2B; with a Black Grail or other NP damage-enhancing CE, he passes 1. Kintoki is easily the best 4* anti-Berserker unit, but there are plenty of other options that are better than Mecha Eli.

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just in time to save people from rolling on her upcoming banner over fujinon’s

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So much discussion to read :fgo_jeannu:

For anyone doubting Okeanos’s placement…check that Xmas lotto doc (Gate 5). There are plenty of (quite favorable, imo) calculations for her NP at all levels and with a myriad of buffs. The jump from np1 to np2 is so huge that I specifically noted where she had to be at np2 for a consistent 3T. She also scales super well with teamwide support buffs (like from El Dorado Zerker, Bunyan, and, sure, Midrash Caster) and has great synergy in unusual Merlin/Tamamo teams. (Where the stun is more useful for buying time for cooldown reductions.) You could probably run her with Edison/Tamamo if you can’t Waver for some reason.

But if you want her to do anything else, no good. Definitely a 4* Medea with hella nerfed NP gain. The GP team, to my understanding, doesn’t rate stall performance very highly anyway.

@RoyAhoy Back-to-back stuns are fun for CQs (somebody did a weird Okkie/Okeanos Caster/Munenori stall team of the Fuuma CQ this summer in JP) but the stun isn’t the important part. The important part is the battery, because it lets you bring event CEs.

Same reason Paracelsus is valuable for his battery despite his potato NP damage—fitting in as many event CEs as possible is good civ.

Interesting to see comments on Midrash and Abby. I’m super curious for this story as a whole—feels like October would have been more appropriate aesthetically than December, but I’m sure there are Reasons :fgo_bbgrin:

Also—Mecha Eli-Chan is surprisingly useful everybody. Happy she’s Tier 2, big hammer and all.

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I can understand this perspective, though I don’t really consider the second to be as important depending on how strong the first proves to be. How often is it really that a properly buffed NP isn’t going to destroy a rough Berserker mob? And further on that, when might the subsequent card damage actually fail you? The only time critical potential is necessary is when clean-up after the fact is required. Sure, in three-waves, you’re best helped here, but then again you’re not going to use your ST NP at this time anyway.

Boars, chimeras, golems, all of them are handled well by her. In terms of bosses, I hold Megalos to be the metric for ridiculously tough Berserker fights, and Mecha-Eli performs quite well. I really don’t know all of what’s coming since I try to keep the game as fresh as possible, so I’m sure there are Berserker bosses in the future that might prove too much for her. I certainly wouldn’t recommend fielding her against Arjuna Alter.

I may concede she’s not the best in her rarity, but given her availability and unquestionable performance, she should still be given credit where it’s due. Players should at least be aware of her as an option for not just Riders and Assassins and Casters… but also Berserkers.

But it doesn’t seem like I’m going to change Sizzle’s mind, nor he mine, so it should probably be put to rest. I’ll just continue to advise friends and other players as I see fit.

For an aside, I will specifically disagree with this mindset and will always fight against the notion that you just need “one” servant for anything. There are five (six) slots for a reason, and greater choice and opportunity helps not only your chances but also prevents gameplay from being stale.

In the end the tiers make enough sense. Glad to have the extra bit added to Illya’s placement. Can fully agree that if you need someone to fire beams then she is ready for the job. Even if Casters have that damage modifier, she can definitely do work.

Will feel for Abigail’s future in the 4th tier ahead of time. At least she’s in a decent spot upon release. If I ever do summon her at least the focus of overcoming that horrific np gain is clear. Wonder if the better choice is to just give her something like Prisma Cosmos or use someone’s skill to charge her rather than bolstering her NP gain rate since any boost to such a low number is still not going to be too crazy.

On the other hand, it’s not necessarily wrong to suggest that just one strong option for each type is “needed.”

If a player is both a gameplay extremist and an absolute minimalist, that works at face value. Also works for players on a tight SQ and/or cash budget who need to triage their rolls.

Of course most of us want some variety and aren’t satisfied going only with what’s strictly needed, fielding the exact same comps over and over.

Imo Abby works really really well in Tamamo/Merlin teams with a Prisma Cosmos. You’ll always get some damage in unless they debuff you to oblivion and there are lots of Arts cards flying about and Tamamo’s NP spam with GoA is pretty ridiculous, especially with Prisma Cosmos. You could also use Waver, but I feel like Merlin > Waver as a stall servant, especially since you will have to tank some NPs with this team.

She plays similarly to Kiara, in that respect—slow-moving, but guaranteed to get the damage in.

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well I have all these things (including prisma cosmos being mlb), so… :fgo_astolfo:

Rexlent did that comp for the next CQ, actually.

Personally, if you’re going to stall I’d just use Waver/Edison/Tamamo, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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well I don’t have that many mlb prisma cosmos

actually, idr if I even have a 2nd

not a cute little girl

incomprehensible

though jokes aside, I should give my edison some more usage

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Try double Merlin too.

You have to deal with Abby’s atrocious cooldowns, but you’ll deal more damage and have an extra panic button.

She can solo some things on JP too but servants who need arts chains to gain NP are just automatically frustrating IMO.

That makes sense. If luck does go that way then I’ll probably have to see if I can make Waver work for it and maybe borrowing a Merlin/Tamamo to round things out. Not that either are hard to find on support lists. Or just stall in another direction with Jeanne.

If I ever get 2 more could MLB a Prisma Cosmos. Sitting at a middle ground of 3 at present. I could work with slow and steady stalling doom.

Personally, I like Abby with :fgo_casgilworry:

6-hit Arts cards, she likes the Arts buff, she likes the Charisma…

I feel like that Buster NP is actually a huge nerf…

I’m actually gonna have to make it a point to use my casgil more, once we get his summer3 outfit

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er
why is illya in the tier explaination
when shes not only not a salem girl
but was also nowhere to be seen in the 5 star tier log

wasn’t put into a change log before, I think

guessing it may of been a slight update from when we had her np interlude

In the introduction:

"In addition, we never did a full breakdown of the Halloween 3 Servants, so naturally, we’ve added them here and updated their descriptions on the Tier list. Plus, an observant reader made us aware of an unupdated Illya explanation, so that has been included here as well. "

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