Servants who desperately need strengthening

What i mean is that he has individual good skills that in a vaccum work but they don’t merge into a cohesive whole because you can tell his kit was desgined for Demon Tower event and not for general fights.

I mean, she is a Caster, if a normal servant do 1.0 of damage the Casters and Assassins do 0.9 so they usually don’t are the Best options for damage

Nitocris already have one and she still pretty weak in that aspect for not having damage steroids, funny enough a NP 3 Nito out damage a davinci in NP damage, what is sad

Technically you are the one that don’t understand (no offence intended)

Advice, use her battery right at the start, her cooldown is terrible so that you may be able to use it a second time in a mission that isn’t a 3 turn.
Use her with a stat regen ce to make her second skill work better, we have get a lot of those for free so wouldn’t be a problem to get one of those at lest.
Do 3 turns, she could make your life pretty easy in that area, you have a good amount of servants that have batteries of at lest 30% for free and the game give like 2 or 3 50% starting charge ce’s every year so that wouldn’t be a problem

Weren’t you the guy that say that say that buffing her in any way was useless because she was sooooo bad?

Maybe, you have some ideas of how to buff him?

Give him a way to absorb stars given his low star weight and maybe a Crit buff along with it given his main pourpose is to get his NP as fast a possible with Crits.

Sigh. You don’t seem to understand 3 turn farming. That is what she is for. Cooldowns don’t matter if the fight is over before the buffs end. Plugsuit takes time - time is important when you are trying to do 300 boxes every lottery.

This is my 2nd account with no waver or merlin. This account completed setsubun - you know the event where no support servants are allowed? My tactics and strats must really suck then. The servants that provide a 20%+ np party battery skill don’t have a damaging NP or are single target which makes them less than ideal in a farming situation unless you want to run arash or plugsuit, both of which take a longer time. Let me remind you the servants currently as of today providing a 20% + PARTY charge skill on NA are iimited to Ozy, Waver, Merlin and Helena Archer

But hey RAGE more this setup farms dailies and most events no problems. You seem to be a BIG BRAIN player so I shouldn’t have to explain how this works. Other than Imaginary element which is a 4* CE reasonably easy to get - All CE’s are f2p. So don’t go saying I’m running p2w CE’s

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Increased Guts duration. Or 2 hit invul and skill CD reduction. More preferably the former. Easy fix.

He already has a kit that’s amazing for both farming and CQs, legitimately one of the last Servants to need a buff. Debuff cleanse, invul pierce, star bomb, potential for ludicrous damage, he really does have a strong answer for everything in his preferred comps.

I do want to say, while nothing remarkable pre-Skadi and pre-NP SQ, he was already well acceptable at genning stars and building meter beforehand. Golden Rule is absurdly good for getting one’s NP as fast as possible all on its own. Post-Skadi, and post-NP SQ (which also allows for stackable DEF downs)? All-in-all he’s honestly got an amazing kit as is.

Assuming one is lacking native Waver (SSR), Merlin (Limited SSR), later Asclepius (although he doesn’t provide any damage steroids which can prove to be a problem if you’re unable to run the looping comps involving him, which are better anyway), how else are you going to get AOE 20% charge off the bat, which is conveniently enough for a Kscope? That is one of her biggest draws, and one reason she is so touted as a mini-Waver (not that I agree, but I get it due to being a strict QoL improvement from literally no AOE charging)?

  • Post-buff Hans provides NP regen for up to 30% across 3T, but only for one unit, and not instantly
  • Shakespeare provides ST 20% charge, and is Buster-focused and has a buff for only 1T (potential demerit for both)
  • Parvati gives 10% minimum on-NP, still requiring NP to fire (and for her to work for the farming node)
  • BB provides a flat 20% AOE, except is no farmer and requires firing her NP off (and is a welfare so you might not have her)
  • Lanling Wang provides 20% ST, and is exclusively Arts-focused (don’t take this as calling him bad though, just specialized)
  • Santera provides 20% ST, but like Parvati also needs to work for the node
  • Beni-enma provides 20% AOE, but is a Limited SSR
  • Bradamante provides 20% ST, but is an SSR too
  • Hime provides 20% ST, except isn’t a standard farmer/is pretty much exclusively stuck to Raid support
  • Ozy provides 20% AOE, but unfortunately is, also, an SSR (on top of being an ST DPS and thus a bit more problematic to slot into farming comps)
  • Ryouma provides a laughable 10% AOE and only individually mediocre buffs while being Arts-focused an an ST DPS
  • Chen Gong is outstanding, but only provides 10% AOE
  • Miyu gives 30% ST, except is Miyu
  • Mash provides 20% ST, except you don’t take her to farm
  • Bride gives 30% ST and is an amazing support, except that’s ST and she’s a Limited SSR
  • Sima Yi provides 10% AOE and a further ST 20% charge, except you don’t take her to farm

Only some of those can:

One, clear a wave for you (most often a mediocre W2)
Two, provides 20% AOE charge.
Three, provides rainbow 20% cardtype buffs, which is sometimes all you need to push damage for your W3-clearer(s) just a bit further, once you factor in outside buffs like extra supports brought in via Plugsuit (or its own 20-30% ATK Up), various steroids courtesy of various MCs (50% ATK Up from Chaldea, 60% Buster Up + 20 stars from Blonde, etc).

Waver and Merlin may provide big charge or big buff values respectively, but once they’ve popped those they’ve brought all their value already. In fact, “just enough” was exactly the case when I used her to Surf the Caster node during Counterfeit, and as she also saw circumstantial use for Surfing Rotation 3 in the last Nero Fest. For the former, while it’s not your standard top chargers + Riders shenanigans, it still handily got the job done by offsetting Surfdred’s otherwise pitiful damage (and likewise was Surfdred’s damage offset by buffs and the DMG CE).

Currently, and even going forward, Helena is uniquely capable, powerful, and even respectable in what she can do for circumstantial - but, highly highly remarkable when they work - NP refund-based 3T looping comps, and for mid-tier straightforward patchwork 3T farming comps (which are also 3T), in tandem with being able to clear a wave herself which in itself is sufficient even if her NP Up doesn’t proc in any reasonable comp that uses her. You say she’s inferior to the alternatives who can also perform the same or similar role (meter charge), to which I ask, is there any of those mentioned that can both charge and wave-clear? And, sufficiently? She’s also got an Interluded NP and (chance-based) fat 50% NP Up, which allows her to clear W2 or slot into Double NP W3 comps more rarely.

Now, assuming you have the native chargers or exclusively need Waver/Merlin charge - the latter of which often ends up meaning “I already have high chargers and/or high NP levels on them and/or superscopes obsoleting the need for AOE/ST 20% charge” - then she does indeed lose some value, but that’s a pretty problem to have given the contexts in which she’s obsoleted mean far better things for one’s own roster, which isn’t everyone. She’s a convenience pull, and a convenience to field. Outside of farming, she absolutely suffers - but nobody except the most dedicated use her outside of farming in the first place, so that’s a non-starter since it’s not how she is discussed 99% of the time anyway.


That was a fine analysis though I’ll add that Lanling also provides an attack buff so he isn’t limited to arts teams.

That was her initial appeal for me as well and as I lacked both K-scopes or other support options so she was a core component in me being able to obtain enough NP batteries to min-turn.
She held that spot for more than half a year and even if I nowdays have other np providers her rainbow buff and AoE NP still makes her relevant.

All three applies to me.
She cleared waves during Da Vinci rerun.
I used her just for the NP gauge for the Santa Alter rerun as Riders dominated the node.
Her battery and rainbow buff was useful for when I surfed with Mordred and I’ll do that again for GIlfest 2021.

The only shame is that her territory has been a bit invaded by the Statue God on JP but she still is unmatched among the 1-4*.
As far as I know the only real rival she has in team buffs, battery and AoE NP among them is Jason and he is trait limited.

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This is true, though he’s still specialized altogether is my idea, just like the adjacent Lakshmi. When he does show up to help farm, tends to be in the (superior) looping comps anyway. By which point, well, the obsoleted comments.

Statue God is unfortunate, and true. Luckily for her/me, she takes 4 more Cost, is an SSR I won’t be actively rolling for, and will only be brought out if obtained when my NP2 (possibly more by then?) Helena doesn’t cut it for neutral… though I only very rarely take her for neutral, so. :stuck_out_tongue: (And assuming I’d need what they both bring anyway.)

Trying to explain Helena to that person is not a good use of time. They’ve already been offered detailed explanations as to how she works and can’t seem to grasp how she is useful despite her drawbacks.

Whenever you have the urge to construct a sentence that reads anything to the effect of “Why am I the only one who understands,” that should be a huge red flag to stop and re-evaluate before proceeding. We aren’t making this stuff up; you haven’t discovered an FGO secret to which millions of other players are oblivious.


Fair enough.
Oddly enough I hadn’t considered using him for arts looping or even farming.
Hmm, that was a big blindspot considering his buffs so thanks for providing new ideas.

Haha, I agree on those points.
I’m also not going to roll for her either though Laksshmi is tempting so I might end up with the statue… just like on JP.
Still the second banner is far more interesting so :man_shrugging: .

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Change Sansons 3rd skill to humanoid and effect servants as well

@Gou Sometimes I like to make a post putting the facts out there, for anyone who isn’t as educated on the game - not necessarily the regulars of this thread, but what of lurkers, randos, or whomever else? Helena’s no superstar, but the facts of what she can enable even down to video and raw mathematical proof is, well, reason enough.

@Poddiadv Yup, Spishtar/Pretty Boy/Ice Cream Wife is a pretty solid comp for the first at NP2+, which is of interest to me since I high-key extremely want her even if I, say, at one point ended up with an NP2+ Dantes (which I am aiming for; if character love didn’t factor in NP1 is perfectly fine with 2x Skadi 2K HNS). There are other solid brainless comps, but that’s one I like and want to run, sooo.

Lakshmi is ultra-cute as befitting a Jeanneface and I kinda love everything about her but RIP not being a whale lol.



It’s not a bad thing to do that; I would never discourage sharing the information for its own sake.

At the same time I can’t quite help myself from pointing out that several good faith efforts have already been made in this thread to help that poster with Helena, and to no avail whatsoever. They just refuse to get it.


Nah man, he’s cracked the code . We are all wrong all the hours we’ve spent 3t farming with her succesfully, that was jusst us being bad players. The JP Players are wrong for putting her so high on the JP farming tier lists. We clearly don’t know what we’re talking about /sarcasm


Aww, crap guys. All the stuff I farmed with the help of my Helena Archer just vanished in a puff of logic. If you hadn’t told me how useless Helena is, I wouldn’t have retroactively lost all that value!

Ignorance is, indeed, bliss.


Eh I’ll be honest Helena is pretty good in my book.
If I do get her and not Waver I would definitely max her out. Her values are pretty darn flexible
if I get lucky GSSR might drop me that 4 star lady

Helena provides a team wide 20% battery, a damage steroid for all servant, and pack a NP powerful enough to clear a wave of enemies and has caster star-gather. As far as I know, no other servants even in JP has all of these qualities combined


I use Helena too.

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the only close thing is Gong,which is still far apart
Team wide 10% battery,NP strong enough to clear a wave at the cost of allies, a damage steroid that is most useful on Beserkers,and Caster Star Gather,
oh and self-riddance through scapegoat too

Pretty late, but there was a thread About improving Darius but there is unimportant lore fluff at the beginning.