Should I care about Swampert?

I already have half a dozen shiny/lucky Feraligatr. Does Swampert matter? I can see that it has higher ATK and CP, but I’m not sure how Water Gun vs Waterfall ties into that.

Should I just get one, for completion sake? Or was Feraligatr a bad investment?

Feraligatr is still great, and looks pretty cool, so I don’t think it was bad investment. That said, Swampert is arguably better, with generally superior DPS and TDO, but it’s typing leaves it extraordinarily vulnerable to Grass so Feraligatr may be a better choice for certain matchups.

Moving over to PvP, the combination of Mud Shot (one of the fastest energy charging moves) with Hydro Cannon looks very promising. It’s likely to get Muddy Water as well (similar to how Blaziken received Blaze Kick) which may increase desirability.

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For raids the best water type attacker is Kyogre, the second one been CD Feraligatr, and between the two there is a big difference. Swampert will be a little better than Feraligatr, but no near Kyogre in performance. But as Gyarados shine against earthquake because is flying type, Swampert has some pros and cons because of the earth type in compare to pure water types:
-Pro: It resist rock and electric attacks.
-Con:It receive neutral damage from water and ice attacks.
Of course even by surviving more, Kyogre damage will be superior, but you will need to revive less. And finally there is the future value of Mega Swampert, but that will only be speculation.
As for PvP, I don’t have the slightest idea of its performance.

Swampert with Hydro Cannon essentially gives you Kyogre’s DPS at a cost of about 20% of its TDO. Comparatively, Feraligatr is strictly worse in both departments but is still the 3rd best option.

In the case of a 2-bar attack like Hydro Cannon, Water Gun is more favorable than Waterfall due to its higher energy gain. Waterfall is more suited when paired with one-bar attacks like Hydro Pump since you’re likely to go down with wasted energy, allowing the higher DPS of Waterfall to pick up some slack. If you add Water Gun back into Feraligatr’s learnset on the DPS/TDO spreadsheet you’ll see Water Gun/Hydro Cannon surpasses its available Waterfall/Hydro Cannon set.

I don’t PvP regularly but by looks of Swampert’s getting set up to be an absolute monster with Hydro Cannon. Water Gun and Mud Shot are both good PvP attacks, Earthquake doesn’t actually suck in PvP, and Hydro Cannon requires the same low energy as Surf but has an additional 25 points of base damage.

Tl;dr unless you’re 100% satisfied with your gators you’re gonna want some Swampert. If you PvP you’re absolutely gonna want one for each league. I have a hundo and three +93% luckies waiting for the weekend.

Some people have mentioned Swampert’s addition Ground-typing.

In the context of the Pokemon you’re likely to use Swampert against in a raid (Fire, Rock, and Ground types), that Ground-typing is more likely to be of benefit than a hinderance. It grants a Rock-type resistance, which is useful against most Rock-types. Rock-type attacks in those raids come up more frequently than Grass-type attacks and especially against Ice- and Water-type attacks where the Ground-type is a hinderance. And that’s ignoring Ground-types’ extra resistances. Historical raid Pokemon where that Ground-type was useful include Golem, Rhydon, Regirock, Nidoqueen/king (Poison-types) and Aggron & Heatran (only recommended over other Ground-types in rain). Also potentially upcoming Gigalith and Terrakion in 5th Gen. Notable past cases where the Ground-type is worse is Solar Beam (Groudon and Typhlosion) where Feraligatr may be prferred. Groudon is probably the most important case where you would want to use Water-types, but still generally the Ground-type is more often benefit than a hinderance.

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*perfect

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I know what I said.

Both are great options.

Swampert’s a better water attacker with hydrocannon, since Water gun’s higher energy rate, and when using what is one of the strongest moves in the game, greater frequency of usage matters a bit more than more damage on your fast move. In cases where the charge move is something like hydropump, the differences between EPS and DPS of waterfall/gun are somewhat negligible, but with a move that hat more damager per energy like hydrocannon…yeah watergun’s better. That and Swampert’s got the better attack stat, so even if it was using waterfall, it would be out damaging feraligatr.

Feraligatr was by no means a bad investment, it was through two groudon runs, and entei day as the best nonlegendary water. But most of the hype for swampert stems from PvP, where its the fastest hydrocannon spammer. Ground types are great in PvP with mudshot, but since most (ie groudon) are burdened with high cost charge moves, they are very reliant on shields being down. Swampert doesnt have that issue, able to be the shield breaker and the ‘go for the throat’ attacker at the same time, where as Groudon was dependent on either locking an electric type in, or having shields down for it.

Its kinda the dragonite/Salamence senario, Dragonite’s great, but something else is better, does that inherently make dragonite any worse of an attacker than it was? No, it still does just as much as before, and it still served well even before its competition was added.

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To my surprise, in pokebattler simulations Swampert it’s not that far from Kyogre, and it have a healthy distance from Feraligatr, but it still couldn’t surpasse Kyogre in the end.

CD Empoleon has a little more attack than Swampert, it may be able to take the crown for Kyogre, althought it has waterfall as a fast move and I’m not sure if water gun is the secret of CD Swampert big damage increase. Of course they could give Kyogres a better move or at least a two bar charge move(like surf) and it will retain the water throne.

In the game boy games, Swampert was the first starter I ever got to lvl 100 so he has a special spot in my heart. IMO you should power up what you like instead of focusing so much on stat differences.

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AGREED! This is why I run unique 6 teams for most raids unless the raid requires a lot of damage in a short man. Gets very boring staring at a team of 6 Feraligatrs.

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Empoleon has less DPS than Swampert, because Water Gun’s faster energy gain is superior to Waterfall’s better damage when paired with Hydro Cannon (more energy for the OP charge move). Furthermore Empoleon has notably less bulk than Swampert. Especially considering that Empoleon doesn’t resist Fire-types and is weak to Ground-types, 2 of the 3 types that you use Water-types for.

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I was curious, so I tried adding everything future Starters could possibly get to the calculator and seeing how that would go.

DPS

DPS^3*TDO

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I’m with you. For general raiding, I’ll sacrifice damage to field a unique team. I also power up only one of each legendary. If that ties my hands in certain select scenarios, so be it.

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