Should Pokémon go add a second fast move?

It would be very beneficial when it comes Pokémon ttar being able to use it as Dark and rock type attacker instead of having two separate ttar’s for each type. For others it would make it more convenient and more of a luxury for Pokémon like swampert and rhyperior so players don’t have to use tm before using to switch coverage.

Too many issues in PvP. In PvE it would be fine.

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Too many issues in PvP.

Actually, while it would change PvP, I think it would be a great add. Mantine with Wing Attack and Bullet Seed, various psychic pokemon with Psycho Cut and Confusion (energy vs. damage choice), and a number of other situations where it would make things interesting. And it would somewhat weaken (functionally) those pokemon like Azumarill that only have one good fast move. Right now, you can pretty much tell exactly what fast move almost every pokemon has by type. Azu -> bubble, Gunfisk -> Mud shot. It’s rare that a pokemon has two fast moves that are almost exactly equal in power. A second fast move would add a new dimension to PvP, one that it could use right now.

In PvP, species with two viable fast moves would become OP. Think Giratina-A in open UL.

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Yes this will be a huge problem
abomasnow-razor leaf/powder snow
a-muk-snarl/poison jab
granbull-charm/snarl(I would love to see this one though)
Arcanine-snarl/thunder/fire fang

The solution to that is better fast moves. Alolan Marowak has access to Fire Spin and Hex, both are good fast moves. You have to make a conscious choice which to use based on the rest of your team and that is good. Drifblim, Frosslass, Alolan Ninetails, and Whimsicott are other examples of Pokemon with two good fast moves.

Azumarill would gain nothing by having access to Bubble and Rock Smash at the same time. Rock Smash is a pile of garbage. Buffing it wont help Azumarill either. Azumarill would be better served with another fast moves. It am absolutely NOT advocating for Charm but it doesn’t have many other options.

I was thinking more pve when I asked the question. The way I imagined a second move could be implemented in the game, is that after obtaining it. The two fast moves could be swapped in advance of using the Pokémon in the Pokémon storage section. So when your in a raid/gym battle your only using one fast move at a time.

But being able to use two different fast moves in pvp would add more diversity and make it more exciting. But yes I imagine this does make some Pokémon more Op.

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Do you mean Drifblim with Astonish? I guess what you want to say is Jellicent.

No I thought Drifblim had Powder Snow and Hex like Frosslass but I checked and it doesn’t.

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For most 'mon, fast TMs do what you advocate, namely work to switch between fastmoves prior to raiding. Recent movepool updates and certain CD 'mon (* cough * Tyranitar * cough *) make this more difficult but it works for most.

In PvP, being able to use multiple fastmoves on the same 'mon would be pretty much game-breaking. Not it a good way.

I see the point re PvP and the trouble it would cause, but couldn’t they just render one fast move unusable for that? They can build in different applications of charge move ie. in raids you click it, it fires, in PvP/Rockets, you’ve got to play the mini game.

For PvE, I think particularly if there is an increase in Elite fast moves, which I know certain people have suggested is possible, this would be worthwhile.

That said, the above is ideal world not niantic world and I suppose they won’t give us anything that makes us need to do less raiding ie. 2x Fast and Charge moves = only one Charizard and Tyranitar for mega’s for example = 6 less mega raids to do.

Razor Leaf and Charm for Whimsicott, awesome;)

Razor Leaf and Snarl for Shiftry, awesome.

I guess they could have fast move tapping buttons and the charged move buttons, but with the switch buttons already there not enough space. I use Iphone plus but it’d be really bad on a small iphone.

Might make hidden power moderately interesting as an alternative, not sure if any would get anything from it since HP so famously bad

A solution would be to allow pokemon to switch between all moves they have learned while in menu, but not while in battle. They would still only have 1 fast and 1-2 charge moves equipped at a time, but everything they had learned through TMs would be at your disposal without spending more TMs.

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Itd would allow Dialga to put pressure on Togekiss. Metal Claw and Dragon Breath :thinking:

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Azumarill would gain nothing by having access to Bubble and Rock Smash at the same time.

Agreed. But the purpose of this change isn’t to buff Azumarill - it’s doing just fine as is. The point is to make the game more interesting, to give more options and choices. Some pokemon may not gain from this change, others will. Typhlosion with Shadow Claw and the new fire fast move would get a lot better.

Azumarill could benefit from something like waterfall, giving it more damage less energy, or water gun, getting more energy less damage. Or maybe a new fairy fast move that isn’t charm. On the flip side, Azu with charm might be interesting - the charged moves would come much more slowly. I think it would play somewhat like Wigglytuff, a lot of Charm/Ice Beam, but might be stronger.

In PvP, being able to use multiple fastmoves on the same 'mon would be pretty much game-breaking. Not it a good way.

I disagree. It would be game changing, not game breaking. There would be some new top dogs, and some of the old ones would still be good, just not as good relative to the pack. It wouldn’t be game breaking unless your world view is that Azumarill is the king of the Great League and anything that changes that breaks the game.

The game would be different. People would have to learn new strategies, learn to watch out for certain other pokemon, etc. That’s different, not broken. And that’s the kind of thing that has been happening from the beginning. Remember when all we could do is collect pokemon and spin stops? Then they added gyms, PvP, redid gyms, added research tasks, GBL, etc. None of those broke the game, just added to it.

  • Starting rant

Here’s why I think having multiple fastmoves on each 'mon in PvP would break the game as we know it:
The most consistent thing in PvP are fastmoves. We use them to estimate available energy, farm opponents, and generally dictate the tactics in using a given Pokémon. In PvP “fastmoves make the 'mon” and are arguably the most important variable in whether a pokemon is great or mediocre (just look at Blissey). If you could use multiple fastmoves on each 'mon (switching between them within a single battle), then trainers could no longer accurately estimate energy levels (“count moves”) or effectively wall Pokémon with wide movepools.

Take Gyarados for instance: running Dragon Breath it is able to counter dragons and water-types. With Waterfall instead, it loses pretty hard against dragons, (most) grass and water-types; instead it does very well against steel-types, fairies, and has slightly higher damage output in neutral matchups. Choosing between DB and WF is a conscious choice that determines your strategy when using Gyarados and which matchups are good or bad. In certain leagues, you see more Gyarados running one move or the other based on what common threats might be or how it fits in with the team’s synergy. If you could switch between them at-will within a single battle, there would be less strategy, not more. There are very few 'mon that resists both Dragon and Water (Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Whimsicott, and Azu) and that’s just for the fastmove for one 'mon! This would make the matchups far less about resistances or strategy (since you can’t count on being able to wall fastmove damage) and much more about simple DPS and bulk. Which is an overall decrease in complexity and strategy.

Caveats: if the mechanics for PvP changed and became either strictly turn-based or was completely restructured in some way, the above arguments do not hold. This is assuming PvP mechanics would otherwise be exactly like they are now. If the whole things changed, that’s fine as long as its still a good game overall.

  • End of rant
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If you could use multiple fastmoves on each 'mon (switching between them within a single battle), then trainers could no longer accurately estimate energy levels (“count moves”) or effectively wall Pokémon with wide movepools.

So, as I said, it would change the game. I still think trainers could count moves, it would just be a little trickier if the pokemon used some of each. Consider Mewtwo with Psycho Cut and Confusion - trainers would just have to look at the move animation to help with the counting.

It sounds to me like your complaint is saying that two fast moves would change the game away from the structure you have mastered and like, which perforce must be bad. I argue that it’s simply different. Remember way back when before gen 2 came out, and Arcanine was the creme de la creme of fire types? It’s not any more, the game has changed. Not gotten better, not gotten worse, just different.

Take Gyarados for instance:

Gyarados is one of the pokemon that would gain a lot from this change. Whimsicott also comes to mind, Typhlosion, and a few others. But it’s not an extensive list. Azumarill would probably not gain much power by having a second move.

I argue that many of the top tier pokemon have a single fast move that is better than the rest of the pool (well, let’s leave Mew out - but even for Mew there are a few optimal moves). Part of the motivation for this change is to bring some new pokemon into that top tier by virtue of them having choices and flexibility in their fast moves.

And frankly, I’m getting bored with the almost automatic nature of what the fast move for the pokemon is. Registeel has Lock-On, Azumarill has Bubble, Swampert has Mud Shot, it’s pretty much certain. Pokemon like Gyarados, Giratina-A, Feraligator, and Mantine have a choice, and that makes them interesting. Giving them both choices at once makes them more powerful and more interesting.

If what I understand about the MSG is correct, one could typically train a pokemon to have a wide collection of moves. Jolteon with Pin Missile (charged move, I know), things like that, made the game interesting. In PoGO, we have so many pokemon that pretty much automatically have one specific fast move and two specific charged moves. Pokemon with choices, especially in the fast move, are the exception, not the rule.

One of the things that was interesting to me was in the little cup. After several times of my Bronzor lead running into another Bronzor lead and having a slog of bashing each other with doubly NVE Confusion and then NVE Heavy Slam, I switched my fast move to Tackle. I lose a bit of energy, but do enough more damage with the NVE Tackle that I would always win the mirror matchup with even shields. Still a slog, but it was amusing to see my foes freak out when they were in the red and I was still well in yellow, and I won a lot of matches because of it. (Sure, I gave up some damage in other matches, but they came up far less often, and I’m pretty sure it was a net win for me.)

So if that little bit of interesting strategy could be expanded by buying a second fast move and extending it to many other situations and pokemon, I think it would add to the game, not break it.

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