Snorlax with Return or Body Slam for the UL?

Looking at PVPoke’s post on Twitter, I’m dusting off a decent Snorlax that I purified to keep Return. I’m going to add a 2nd attack to get Superpower. Keep Return or TM it to get Body Slam?


Body slam. Return is not bad and some people won’t shield, giving you an advantage sometimes. But most of the times you won’t use it due to the too long charging time.

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Thanks. Simulating this on PVPoke, it’s interesting that Snorlax with Body Slam & Return rates higher than Body Slam and any other CTM.

Return used to be just a weaker version of Body Slam (slightly lower damage, same 35 energy) but that changed for the worse when they made it a Hyperbeam clone. Anymore, it’s pretty useless on anything but maybe Sableye. SkullBash is a better Normal-type move (same damage, energy, and a +1 Def).

It’s only the 1 shield simulation. Zero or two are different.
@captpepperjack - it is not a HB Clone, ten energy less and 20 dmg less. Since HB with STAB (180 dmg!!!) is overpowered anyway, return is better than HB in most situations. It is also not useless, Gyarados or similar with resistance to the usual 2nd moves EQ or BS come to mind, who sometimes do not shield, expecting BS. Still it is a niche thing and if at all, not replacing BS but as a surprise 2nd move (if the rest of your team has sth great vs ghost and steel)

I was on the same boat, I got this guy some days ago, but actually was wondering if I should keep it shadow or purify it in the first place :thinking:

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Personally I would keep it shadowed because those IVs + shadow are more rare.

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I think also shadow is a good deal better in master premier cup
Edit, just looked it up and PC ML hitparade is led by shadow Snorlax in the current pvpoke list…

Body Slam - Return is basically Hyper Beam which no one uses due to the ridiculous energy cost. As to the second move, I favour Superpower in UL as it’s useful for the occasional steel and the mirror match (which was annoyingly common last season). Earthquake is better vs steel but Power is a tad more versatile.

I like EQ in UL. SP in ML.
Snorlax needs EQ to beat GirA with dragonbreath and can make the win against shadow claw GirA much cleaner.
Body slam is irreplaceable and running Snorlax without it is just bad.
SP is good in ML (especially PC) because you’ll be encountering the mirror a ton, whereas in UL the format is a lot more varied and Snorlax isn’t really a top meta Pokémon. It’s just pretty good and safe.

Why is no one talking about Skull Bash? 5 energy more, same DPE, and raises defence stat. Use that, it’s good

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Because it is even slower. Even EQ with 65 loads already painfully slow.

Well, Snorlax has the bulk for that. Skull Bash Snorlax was incredible for winning back switch advantage in ML Premier, and it is in UL Premier too. No one used Return there despite the surprise effect

But really, as a second move - you need coverage. First move? Well, what is the second then? A fast move preferred - this is mainly superpower, but with debuff?certainly not.
Bulk, well, yes. A shielded skull bash is better than a shielded return. But even then, not a real advantage. Let’s put it that way, it is for sure better than hyper beam. Sometimes better than return. Is that enough to use it? Not for me, when there are other options such as EQ, OR, SP, HS.

I have to agree with @MartijnLW that Skull Bash does work well in ML PC. I have encountered a few in 2700s and i hated it. The idea is to hit dragonite or gyarados with nuke damage, and get a buff even if shielded. Both Gyarados and Dragonite’s charge moves do only chipping damage, and that buff makes a big difference if the snorlax can get an extra body slam off.

In PC it might help in a bit more situations, cause the main steels are either squishy (magnezone) or hurt badly by lick (Metagross) - and rhyperior and Tyranitar are rare, but why fire off a skull bash vs e.g. Dragonite while two body slams make the same damage and you still have energy left. Btw, I mostly did outrage vs Snorlax and I guess other people do as well.

tbh, that’s the fund part of PvP. You use a move that no one expects and win a few battles, where you may or may not have done the job with other moves. i’m just sharing my experience as a victim when i was expecting the two body slams like you said, or even outrage as the worst case scenario, but lost those battles because of Skull Bash. I think it benefits others to share rather than denying because they don’t look good on paper. My friend even faced one snorlax with superpower and outrage in ML PC and lost. These are all possible options and were used in rank 9/10 last season.

Oh yeah, on one hand I like that view, at least I can wholly understand it and see the point. On the other hand - you might overestimate these special occasions if you did not use it by yourself. This might be one of three occasions which worked, but 20 other did not work out in favor of skull bash. But yes, I like unexpected moves and support them - at least when it doesn’t lower your coverage. I was super happy with my hyper beam obstagoon :D