Summer Mo VS Jeanne (archer)

I know that this is a unfair comparation (4* VS 5*) but I want to know who could be better to decide if I will roll for Jeanne or not.

I have Summer Mo and I want to know how is Mordred compared againts Jeanne in looping and farming (example: vs neutral).
Considering that I will only have a NP1 Jeanne VS my NP4 Mordred.

Extra considerations: I have Bride and Tamamo (also Para (8/8/8) so I will be able to use double bride and Jeanne (BG CE +1000atk, NO MLB) once that bride recieve her skill upgrade
I could use a HNS (MLB lvl100) on mordred to use a similar setup.

I also have a NP1 Atalanta and I will try for Skadi, If manage to summon skadi this could cover my saber farming.

SurfMo’s relative ease of NP++ is definitely a consideration. Her NP refund is also so nuts that she requires less support compared to other looping Servants.

Personally I would go for Jeanne Archer only if you love her. Her ATK is very low for her rarity, and she has the Archer demerit, so her firepower will suffer. IMO she’s a Servant for whom you really want at least one or two extra NP levels just to bring her to a workable damage ceiling.

I’m not saying that Jarcher is bad; by most measures she’s quite good. I’m just less impressed by her gameplay when we have competitive Arts and (soon) Quick looping options.

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Thats the answer.
If you looking for Art NP loop potential, then you already have NP4 Mo-chan.

Summer Jeanne is better. But there’s a catch.

While she does not require any CE to work with after Nero Bride’s upgrade, she has 3 different buff types (Attack, Arts and NP) and she can farm against any enemy her weakness is the damage of her NP.

Thanks to her low Attack and uninterluded NP, she simply does not have a lot of powerat NP1 and even against certain Archer nodes she is not going to be able to 3 turn it based on that fact alone. You.said Mordred is NP4 and as such she is not only going to have an easier time reaching Overkill but also is going to be usable against more enemies.

If you want her for looping instead of love you better go for high NP levels or have Black Grail.

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Between the two, SurMo has an easier time NP Looping. She has a higher base NP gain (.71% vs .68%), her NP hits each enemy 5 times whereas Jarcher’s hits 4 times, and she has a passive Arts buff whereas Jarcher doesn’t. Their Arts buff skills provide have the same 20%-30% scaling (although Jarcher’s has an added 2x 3t invincibility buff). However, with your set up, you’ll be able to make Jarcher NP Loop without too much trouble.

When it comes to damage output against class neutral targets, Jarcher will (assuming the same NP level) be able to deal more damage by virtue of being an SSR while SurMo is an SR. However, given that your SurMo is NP4, it’ll probably require NP3 for Jarcher to match SurMo’s NP damage (this is just based on guessing, I haven’t run the numbers through a calculator to determine the actual damage differential).

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NP4 Rider Mordred deals an average of 22608, has a 30% battery, and her NP has a base np gain of 41.54 against 3 enemies.

NP1 Archer Jeanne deals an average of 21213, has a 40% battery, and her NP has a base np gain of 31.82 against 3 enemies.

Mordred has the higher NP level but Jeanne manages to do comparable damage due to her higher SSR stats and access to all 3 types of damage buffs while Mordred only has her Arts buff.

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While Jarcher unquestionably has the higher ceiling with all factors considered and assuming comparable NP levels, the sad thing is that Mordred loops more easily on pure NP refund than any other Arts Servant and has only ~700 effective ATK less than Jeanne after her Archer demerit is taken into account.

Thankfully NP refund looping isn’t the only thing to care about, because SurfMo otherwise is very vanilla, but she’s stupidly good at that one task.

I’m most likely going to pass on Jarcher because I know I can’t deal with NP1; the damage is going to suck (relative to her SSR status). However, I don’t think I like her enough to want to whale for NP levels.

I tested yesterday my NP5 SurfMo and against Casters she deals (with some buffs) around 65-70K damage per enemy.

Not bad, consideringthat after her NP she regains a good chunk of NP gauge.

I do not know how to loop with SurfMo, but i can already see that she has no problem regaining NP bars.

Jeanne archer…i know little of her. But my archers are mostly Buster, and strong ones at that, so i don’t think i will try to add an art archer.

If i want to deal art damage, instead of her i would simply put Vlad III, a favourite of mine that works well with Waver and Tamamo

Honestly, if you have Bride and are actually thinking about the 1+ year in the future and about using an at least once limit broken Black Grail CE as a starting one? NP1 Jarcher with self-buffs, fous and BG at +1000 attack deals ~34.5k neutral damage on average. NP4 Mordred with self-buffs, fous and lvl100 Holy Night Supper deals ~31k neutral damage on average. With double Bride and, I assume, Tamamo, Jarcher shouldn’t have any problems with refunding at all and her damage against non-casters should be a little higher even at NP1.
Also, Jarcher’s OC effect giving her stars for W3? Pretty useful, in my opinion.
So, I’d say that Jarcher is, in general, better all-around for looping than SurMo at these NP levels, at least after Bride gets her strengthening. Before that NP1 Jarcher will have somewhat lower damage than NP4 Mordred, but still comparable and with a room for growing - she has another banner next summer, after all. Refund-wise with native Tamamo and Bride you shouldn’t have any problems on either.

/Edit: NP damage calculator I used for these numbers: https://maketakunai.github.io/

This is the most informative post in here.

Everyone else who is looking at ATK stats, NP levels, etc. and try to base their judgement off that - don’t. ATK stat and NP multiplier are just two of half a dozen variables that determine final damage output. You need to always refer to an actual NP damage table rather than looking at these things individually, or else you can thoroughly misjudge the actual damage output. At NP3 or lower, NP1 Jeanne still beats Mordred E/: made a mistake, NP3 Mo and NP1 Jeanne are near equal with Mordred having a negligible edge of 200 average damage, and NP2 Jeanne blows Mordred out of the water (heh) at any NP level.

Now, with that out of the way; as others have said, Mordred has an easier time refunding and thanks to the NP4, also a slight edge in damage.
However, since you happen to have Nero Bride, Jeanne has one massive advantage over Mordred. Her 40% battery allows her to run with a double Nero Bride + tamamo setup without any restrictions on her equipped CE. This means 2 things:

  1. Jeanne can run any event CE and thus even do 6 slot setup loops; this is massive for lotteries and other events where high drop bonus gives you a significant farming edge.
  2. Jeanne can equip Black Grail and absolutely annihilate Mordred’s NP damage even in an NP1 Jeanne vs NP5 Mordred situation, at the same drop bonus.
    In order for Mordred to reach 100% charge to shoot off her first NP, without any starting gauge CE, you are forced to run Waver, which means a sharp decrease in both refund and damage output compared to Bride or Tamamo. Compared to Paracelsus, it will likely be slightly more damage, but also significantly worse refund.

There are some caveats to keep in mind here:

  • Jeanne can only run this CE-less setup once Nero Bride has had her upgrade that gives her the needed 30% battery. This upgrade is still a year away on NA.
  • All of these considerations are for stable setups, e.g. setups where the refund is guaranteed no matter the enemy. Mordred will still be able to run CE-less in some quests as well even by taking the penalty of less refund through needing a Waver, provided she’s up against Casters or Riders who provide higher refund (especially since she’s a Rider herself, so you’d mostly bring her vs Casters anyway), or because of overkill damage increasing the refund. But that will require some trial and error for this specific quest, whereas CE-less Jeanne works literally anywhere as long as wave 1 and 2 have 3 enemies (the basic requirement for any sort of AoE looping).

Now, with all that in mind, I still wouldn’t consider Jeanne enough of an improvement over Mordred to warrant rolling for her if you already have Mordred at an NP level above NP1. You might be better off diverting your Jeanne funds to Dantes instead if you manage to roll Skadi.

All of this is only with gameplay considerations in mind, of course. For character preferences, you’ll have to decide for yourself.

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@Inkaflare coming in with all the best info, as usual :heart:

OP, this is solid advice!

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The information is great for its own sake, but I have to chuckle that we still wind up at the consensus’ conclusion after detailing all of that ;)

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Yeah, I just enjoy getting into high end theorycrafting about servants I’ll never have (:fgo_insane:) when the situation presents itself, even if it doesn’t necessarily lead to anything groundbreakingly new.
It’s mostly relevant for people who want/have both, actually, to know the differences.

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Completely agree. In my case I’m pushing Jeanne aside because having BiS event farming options for all card types is overkill, and I intend to cut back on my whaling somewhat, at least when it comes to redundant things that I want for the sake of having lol.

You make me curious… How does Sieg stack up vs Mordred and jarcher as a looper?

Sieg’s refund isn’t quite as good as either of them, but still good, and his free NP5 makes him the best budget looper by quite the margin for a lot of people. He generally does better at looping than all the gacha AoE Casters if you have them at NP1, but he also has a lower damage ceiling as a 4*.
Now do note that Mordred has basically the best refund of all Arts servants period and Jeanne is a close second in terms of refund; coupled with her SSR status and the stuff mentioned above, she’s currently considered the best Arts looper in JP period, so a welfare losing to her is not surprising and Sieg is just really good considering that he’s completely free.
Anastasia has a higher battery, but her refund falls just short in a lot of common setups which mostly negates the advantage of her battery again, and Scheherazade has better refund, but her complete lack of battery mostly restricts her to MLB kscope or plugsuit Waver setups which costs her a lot of damage and refund again. Murasaki has the worst refund of all the AoE casters, iirc, but her battery makes her more flexible than Schez regardless; overall she’s mostly inferior to Sieg tho.

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I find with her selfish Arts buff and an outside one she gets about 40%, so yeah, just shy of what you would want to do 3 in a row, but she’s very capable of doing 2x back to back (Superscope, her refund, her charge, one skill from Waver) and then having someone else clear the 3rd wave (there are tons of options open there).

I don’t ever bother to run actual numbers and calculations though, I base this all on what I’m able to actually do (because numbers get tough when you talk about what CE you have, and what level the CE is, and so on).

3T with Anastasia isn’t too difficult if she can meet the damage targets, just depends on what you’re willing to do (superscope yes or no, plugsuit yes or no, etc.)

FWIW, example with Nastya (disclaimer: NP5) vs. moderate-HP Casters (x1.20 NP refund):

With MLB Miyu, Bride, and Tamamo x2 with one bond CE, she can refund to 102% on W1.

On W2 she needs to use face cards before NP to guarantee one Overkill hit to refund back to 102% (without it, she ends up at 98%).

On W3 this isn’t going to 3T because she can’t come close that kind of neutral damage without BG, even with her 1 activated.

While the requirements here are more strict due to starvation of Overkill hits, it’s one example. Obviously the options open up a bit with Paracelsus’ rank up.

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Thanks to everyone for your answers I want to go for Skadi and Dantes but some summer servants are tempting me you including Jeanne.

I made some calculations about they.
NP4 Mordred with MLB lvl 100 HNS (2000atk, +15%NP)
Team.
Double Bride (80%atk) and Tamamo (50%arts +30NP) will make like 84676 of damage (againt neutral targets)

NP1 Jeanne will make like 83793 of damage
Same team of doble bride and Tamamo.
CE: My own NO MLB Black Grail (60% NP + 1000atk )

But as you said one of the main things about Jeanne is that she can made a team with six event’s CE, Mordred is not able to do that.

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