The PvE Appraisal on this Site Needs to be more Accurate

Many of us already know that the PvE appraisal of Pokemon on GamePress is very outdated. On top of that, the newer ones are also not accurate enough. I just took a look at the page of Nihilego, which puts the moveset of Acid + Sludge Bomb in an unreasonably pessimistic way, saying the fast move is “undesirable”. No doubt Acid sucks in PvP, but in PvE it’s a good enough and above average move.
Fast moves in PvE have 2 parameters - DPS and EPS, and an overall metric measuring the move quality is DPS + EPS. The not-so-good line of fast moves is DPS + EPS = 20, represented by moves still many top-tier attackers are using: Razor Leaf, Waterfall, Frost Breath, Smack Down, Mud Shot, Air Slash. In the page of Kyogre or Rhyperior, I don’t see any comment like “it’s a very good attacker despite Waterfall/Smack Down being an undesirable fast move”.
Nihilego’s fast move Acid has DPS + EPS = 21.25 (11.25 + 10.00), well above the not-so-good line. It has the same number as Poison Jab (12.50 + 8.75), so these two moves are nearly identical in PvE. When paired with Sludge Bomb, Poison Jab performs negligibly better. This is very similar to the comparison between Bullet Punch and Metal Claw, but on the Metagross page I don’t see such sentence “it would be better if given Metal Claw”.
All in all, fast move quality doesn’t define Pokemon’s PvE viability, and even poor moves like Charge Beam and Zen Headbutt are still serviceable on mon with good stats. What should we pay more attention to is charge moves, and in particular the risky factor of single-bar ones, which are better avoided if there are comparable multi-bar alternatives.

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Now the PvE appraisal of Nihilego is very misleading. With Acid, it’s already the best non-mega poison attacker. Best choice for Tapu Bulu and Tapu Koko, and a top pick for Tapu Fini as well. Poison Jab doesn’t change anything.

This is the big difference between PvE appraisal and PvP. In PvP the fastmoves maketh the 'mon and in PvE its always the chargemoves that impact damage output the most.

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  1. It’s subjective - you above all people know this. It’s hardly going to have millions of players binning their Nihilego. You avoid 1 bar moves, many don’t. Neither of us is being “very misleading” when we voice those views. Nobody is going to TM their Nihilego to Pound when they read it.

  2. PvE isn’t that hot any more, if I wrote the GP site, I’d certainly not be worrying about making sure all 5000 (say, 5-8 move summaries per each of the 800 or so species) PvE assessments were aligned with NASA level precision. Lots of the entries were written years ago and they have their work cut out with PvP.

  3. If anyone is that bothered, they can check the spreadsheet, my personal choice - pokebattler or any of the numerous overlay appraisal apps.

  4. It might be the best poison type PvE species yet and it might have 2 of the Tapu’s tapping out, but, unless it can use that wormhole to take us all back 3 months, it’s as much use as the substances I’m about to remove from some cat litter trays.

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All of the responses in this thread have answered the question. However this one blurb is the biggest reason for anything being inaccurate or outdated.

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To be fair, most of the PvP articles are outdated for the same reason as PvE. They were written years ago and haven’t been updated since.

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GamePress simply does not have enough writers to keep everything up to date.

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Then they’d better don’t write new PvE appraisals, instead of writing inaccurate and misleading ones.

There’s nothing inaccurate or misleading about the PvE Overview. Acid is a worse than Poison Jab and Pound is terrible all around. All I have to do is add Poison Jab to the DPS/TDO spreadsheet to see it’s better than Acid. The overview still informs Nihilego is a good Poison attacker though there isn’t much use for Posion attackers.

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You could volunteer?

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The difference between Acid and Poison Jab is negligible. Emphasising Acid being worse is misleading to players unfamiliar with the moves. See my comment on Metagross. Mewtwo is a great psychic attacker, but there isn’t much use of it in raids either.

I won’t refuse.

To be savagely honest PvE apparaisals aren’t worth being analysed that much, and arguably even more so at the higher level. Advice on budget mons is probably useful to new players, but there is no PvE content so demanding any more that a) the difference between an ultra beast with subpar moves and a normal mon with great moves really makes a difference, and b) where it does make a difference the player needs the help of a gamepress guide. If you are trying to two man a legendary that shouldn’t be two manned, you know enough to not need this site telling you what to do.

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Along those lines, “budget highlights” are probably more useful. Don’t have the CD moves on your starters? Here’s the 3 next best options and why they’re usable. The only questions is whether somebody who ‘needs’ that information would ever spend the time looking it up…

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I 100% agree. Its a shame that PvE is kinda left to rot in the waste basket. Niantic has done a lot to ruin raids over the years; poor PvE signature move parameters for legendaries, the rare candy nerf in raids, and the remote raid bundle price hikes are clear signs they want PvE dead.

I’m not gonna expect anyone to drop everything and care about raids. I’m not gonna fault the writer either; PvP has conditioned people to believe that Acid is an awful move (and in PvP, it is). Like you said, Acid isn’t a bad move in PvE, and I agree in the sense that the analysis on Nihilego is incorrect. That said, its a dying meta. People either forget or don’t know things, like, for instance, that Acid actually isn’t terrible in PvE like it is in trainer battles.

In essence, its sad that this is the state of the PvE meta. I wish Niantic focused a bit more on having more raid events and not trying to make Go Battle League a literal E-sport. Its obvious at this point they favor PvP way more, but raids are still fun and an excellent way to bring people in a community together (which is partly what they designed the game for).

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It’s definitely a shame. The only thing I would add is that it isn’t just PvE that gets left to rot - it’s how Niantic handles the game in general; keep throwing up big shiny events to make noise but leave the core gameplay and hope everyone is distracted by the ultra beast releases or whatever.

PvP just had a whole season dedicated to mechanics improvement and it is arguably worse than it used to be. Raids aside, gym fights are entirely stale (everyone is running around with XL shadow machamp and nothing to compensate in defense, rewards are outdated etc). There is a lot that needs to be revisited, and it won’t as long as people shovel cash at them to buy event passes or remote passes regardless.

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In a nutshell - that’s what GoFest was for me, buy your improved odds of shiny Axew, buy your Shaymin, chase some shinies. I didn’t pay, still got a shiny Axew (yes I was v.lucky) but Haxorus is redundant anyway at present, wasn’t desperate for Shaymin Land, didn’t need more passes for Kyogre/Groudon, caught some Nihilego anyway,not bothered about Unknown.

@slyfox32 indeed, the raid days were great, but they seem to have been discarded for the quarterly tickets at the end of each season, plus the annual Generation weekend in February. I’d raid OP Kyogre and PB Groudon to death in a weekend, but instead we’ll likely pay £15 for one each next year.

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Why does it need to be accurate? Niantic has in the last 2 and a half years done everything to kill the interest in that department. Basically, every new move sucks in pve, new mons more or less all have pvp tailored moves making them completely useless in pve and an unrelated gimmick dominates now pve, cause Niantic couldn’t care less about balancing.

And yet, most people reject pvp completely, so all that’s left is shiny hunting, which seems to be the only drive people have these days. I haven’t visited this forum in 3 months and the amount of new posts in this time is frankly comparable to what were the daily new posts back in 2018/19…

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I really don’t want to start a forum war, but please leave the “damn them PvPers” at home.

Development, and cday moves, are not tailored towards PvP. PvE orientated players get upset when a new move is released/given to a mon, and it doesn’t top the DpS charts by 1000% . Sorry that cannot happen every month on cday. The same incidentally applies to PvP-it doesn’t get a meta defining mon every month.

The lack of energy spent on the game is not exclusive to any part of the game. Niantic will fundamentall put minimum effort into the game now their revenus streams are established and pulling cash in.

If you are upset at a reality check, then that’s your problem. What I pointed out is exactly what’s the case and the reason why people bring it up is that this is how it’s been for 2+ years. You can strawman about dps charts and what not, even though that part of the game has been for most people dead for quite a while now, so frankly I don’t see where you’re coming from. People trying to compete and set records at solo raids or short man are a thing of the past and those who were seriously interested into this have all either quit or switched over to shiny collecting.

As of the rest… Rather than arguing, let me just list the following. Here’s the move buff bias.

Fast moves that got buffed in PVP, but remained bad/nothing special in pve: Infestation, karate chop, Ember, razor leaf, bullet seed, Powder snow, Poison sting, Poison jab, Waterfall.

*Also of note Snarl, which got such an insignificant energy gain in pve, that it didn’t change anything noteworthy… It did become the best dark fast move though in PvP.

Fast moves that got buffed in both: Volt switch, Fire fang, hex, Mud-slap,

Fast moves that got buffed in pve, but remained the same in PVP: 0… Yes, ZERO

Also to note dragon tail got buffed in PVP, making both dragon fast moves good there, while in pve dragon breath remains meh and I highly doubt Niantic will care to change that.

Charge moves that got buffed in PVP, but remained bad/meh in pve: Signal beam, Night slash, Crunch, Draco meteor, Zap cannon, Moonblast, Close combat, Focus blast, Flame charge, Overheat, energy ball, Icy wind, Cross poison, Poison fang, Psychock, Iron head, Sand tomb, Scald, Rock thomb

Charge moves that got buffed in both: Bug Buzz, Megahorn, drill peck, brave bird, psychic,

Charge moves that got buffed in pve, but were already good in PVP: Drumroll… Earthquake. Yes. that’s it. A move that was previously awful in pve, was made halfway decent. Said move was already way better in PVP btw and was constantly brought up by people before the buff.

… To pretend that there isn’t a significant pvp bias here is frankly borderline delusion.
And this kind of neglect goes frankly for everything else too. Frankly, I can’t wait for the shinies to be milked to the max and everything falling apart in the supposed forever game.

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