This has been bugging me (tier list change)

Don’t think I need to go into detail on the controversy with the tier lists right now as there are plenty of other threads about it (one being mine, in fact). There have been some changes, and for the most part I think the tier list has been rectified…well, for one glaring issue, anyway; why is Zerkerlot tier 1 while Heracles, Saberlot and Yagyu are demoted to tier 2. Just on Zerkerlot alone, compare him to his new peers; Rider Kintoki, Chloe, and Assassin Shiki being a few choice characters, and all three known for being sheer nukers, even when soloing. They all have forms of steroids and NP batteries, as well as hard survival (though some better than others). All and all, strong servants who can work in teams or solo and be able to take care of themselves. Looking back to Zerkerlot, he has none of those qualities, at least not on his own; while his NP is AOE and can therefore help him clear waves easier than ST servants, his NP gain is absolutely atrocious; even with a basic scope you’re going to have a hard time building up his NP without outside support. Sure, you can use damage on him to help build up the NP but that leads to the next issue; he’s as durable as toilet paper. No hard survival (or soft at that) and is weak to everything from being a berserker. One stray crit and he’s down. Even at full HP (roughly 10k before fous) enemies can easily dogpile him for the count. It doesn’t help that all of his skills are selfish, only aiding him when he’s a massive glass cannon, either. For them to work properly, too, you’d need a healthy sum of stars, so best get a servant with stargen or equip the right CE, otherwise he’s subpar on turn one.

For comparison’s sake, let’s bring up Penthiselea who was DEMOTED to tier 3 by the way. She has roughly the same stats as him, and has the same problem of no survivability, and for context sake she has a ST NP, so she’d have more trouble clearing a wave in one turn. On the flip side, though, she is better than Lancelot in every other aspect; massive self buffs to both herself and to the party with attack up and buster up, which turns any party into a wrecking crew. On top of that, she has an NP gen ability which generates 20% NP per turn for three turns at max level and she has twice the NP rate of Zerkerlot, so she is much more likely to NP spam. All around, she’s a better general use servant (at least according to me).

And let’s not beat around the bush; the reason why Zerkerlot was moved to Tier 1 is simply because of Skadi releasing in NA due to her allowing him to NP spam. While ignoring the fact that his NP is almost entirely generated from her alone so it can theoretically be done with any other berserker, the strategy REQUIRES someone to have their own Skadi to have two on the field in order to make it work. I don’t think I need to tell anyone here on how likely it is to get her, so for those who don’t have her is Zerkerlot still tier 1? If you ask me, absolutely not. Even with a support Skadi, Zerkerlot’s performance is not improved above similar quick-oriented servants. Whenever anyone pulls up his page on Gamepress, they need to keep in mind that the “tier 1” for him comes with an asterisk: “must have Skadi.”

Farming wise, I do really like Zerkerlot. For about a year now I’ve been partnering him up with my Tamamo Cat, Arash and Merlin for 3T farming. With that experience, though, I can most definitely say that he is NOT tier 1. That spot belongs much more so to a servant like Heracles who not only hits like a truck, but can last much, much longer in battle.

End rant.

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Don’t even have much to add here. I totally agree herc should be higher. I still believe cu & herc are the top tier berserkers along with mama raiko and kintoki.

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Zerkerlot just really crumbles when he’s put up against other berserkers. Most others have some form of staying power to help them live long enough to do damage, or have a utility to help other servants in a “quid pro quo” setup. Zerkerlot has none of those and will die in most W1 scenarios. You really can’t say the same for most of his competition. Even Tamamo Cat has utility for defense and healing.

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I made a similar thread a few days ago. It has lots of interesting discussion on Beserkerlots pros and abilities. That said, the consensus seemed to be that since NP1 is supposed to be assumed that Berserkerlot shouldn’t be T1.

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Why you didn’t make this rant im the originals thread, was really necesary to make a thread for this? Is just a humble question, and honestly we all have already have say that the this new tier list i trash yada yada

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  • Lancelot berserk is now tier 1 because through Double Skadi System so he’s a prime refund farmer, take him out of requiring a very specific SSR at maxed skills + an identical SSR with maxed skills and he’s just a generic no survival SR berserker with terrible NP gain (even with his buff) and star generation outside of his NP to wich crit with his skills…but he remains at tier one despite having exactly just ONE very specific niche absolutely depending on Skadi
  • SurfMo is Tier 3 because despite being able to 100% loop with Paracelsus (F2P servant!) + Casgil/Sakamoto (SR interchangeable with a welfare!) + Support Tamamo because she just has…class advantage over casters and not general like berserkers? And because outside of her loop farming niche she’s not good overall for anything else?

TIerlists are incredibly subjective and sometimes follow a logic no one can get behind. I’ve gotten incredibly ridiculous results out of Tier 4’s (like my own First Hassan) despite being so low on the tier list. And this isn’t even considering the units’ usefulness for the next lostbelt gimmicks / challenge quests / events, wich despite requiring farming at its core, some units fall short from being optimal for them.

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If you want you can post this constructive post in the oficial discussion thread.
About the Lancelot thing: and don’t forget that he also needs a specific mistic code or having another maxed SSR, fun isn’t it?

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First Hassan is really good verse Rider bosses from my experience. Tier 4 status really makes no sense for him.

Likewise Hokusai is not better than Raikou. Her only value is being a Foreigner whose NP does almost as much damage to each target as Abigail’s overly low NP does to one target. But outside of that one specific anti Bezerker niche she really isn’t very good without buff support. But what unit isn’t good with buff support? To me units should be evaluated for performance without buffs.

Raikou is much better at farming because she is an AoE bezerker.

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Gilles Caster, he still trash even with support

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Lancelot is tier 1 mainly because JP has him as tier 1. GP probably think it is weird not to follow JP tierlist’s most famous placements

That’s a super dum idea to be honest

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It’s a REALLY bad idea to base a tier list on the belief everybody manages to land a Skadi. Servant tiers should be based on their usefulness on themselves and themselves alone.

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there’s a lot more issues with the list.

saber alter is below saber lily. think about that for a moment.
the saber alter np1 that hits harder than saber lily np5.
and these servants are almost identical in terms of gameplay.
the biggest difference is actually the 2.5k difference in the attack stat.
let that sink in.
2.5k is bigger than using a max level CE vs not using a CE
2.5k is the difference between some 5 stars and 3 stars.
2.5k is 30% of saber lily’s attack, like a permanent waver attack buff.

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Not any more after the NP interlude.

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I second this statement. A lot of tier list placement is completely dependant on whether you have the strongest supports available or not (even considering support borrowed ones) instead of their general, standalone utility, and how enhanced it is by having the correct team built around them.
Saberlot’s placement as top tier 4 star unit was due to his massive self sufficiency for his own gimmick and skill synergy independant of team support, yet he got dethroned by his own berserker counterpart just because he can 3-turn farm BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN 10/10/10 SKADI, A SUPPORT 10/10/10 SKADI, AND A VERY SPECIFIC MYSTIC CODE. The tierlist assumes you somehow do have your own Skadi with at least maxed first and third skills to skyrocket his tierlist placement to rank 1, despite even being less efficient at just NP1 and requiring NP2 and upwards to do a proper loop. Take him outside of that extremely narrowed niche and he’s nowhere near the cream of the crop, as has been the mindset for some servants to not be higher on the tierlist (“outside of this niche, servant bad”), yet for Berserkerlot this is somehow an exception. This is almost reddit levels of logic.

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:thinking:

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As in “fixed.” They’ve moved around some servants since the initial tier change. While I still have some gripes, I think it’s a bit better.

5 Star Tier List

Last Updated: July 6, 2020

Who was fixed? The tier list doesn’t look ‘fixed’ to me. Last update made was the 3rd Anni changes.

EDIT: Actually it looks like Scathach was ninja moved up a tier.

Yeah, servants like Tamamo Lancer and Scathach were moved up recently. Since Tamamo Lancer has been a main for my anti-archer teams recently, I noticed the jump from tier 4 to 3.

I need numbers because I’ve seen people claim otherwise.