Tier List Change Log Nero (Bride) & Meiji Restoration

We’ve updated the Tier List (a little) again!

The Roman Empress moved to a higher Tier in particular, and it includes some more thoughts from us regarding the Meiji Restoration Servants and the introduction of Tier EX. Those thoughts should’ve been up 2 weeks ago, but alas. I’m quite curious to know how you view Nero (Bride) as in my teams she’s commonly used as either a Combat Suit swap-in to buff my team or for smacking louts with an Arts team.

Personally, the ST Saber Servants have a pretty nice selection of powerful Servants for each card type among the 5* Sabers. That said, Saberlot brings some insane competition in the Saber Arts DPS department!

don’t really disagree with Bride’s tier but I do feel the complaints about dmg output are overstated a bit particularly on np. Sure it hits lower than musashi & okita per np level but is it really that much? From my recollection it’s roughly around 10% less than Okita and about 20% than Mushashi. (Mind you it’s been a long time since my Bride has been NP1 and is now np3 whereas my okita and Musashi are only np1) but once you factor in the spammability of her np I feel over the course of the battle particularly the longer fights multiple break bars etc - the damage outputs will be similar. I understand one the things that hurts her in that type of content is the lack of a hard survival skill compared to her competition so I have no complaints with the tiering

2 Likes

Hmm, the placement talk about her somewhat lower comparative damage compared to Musashi and Okita in the past tense though - it’s not her NP that is the issue anyway.

Personally, I think it’s more the depth of damage (if we purely compare them in the damage department). Nero Bride is reliant on that NP damage, and given how it doesn’t refund well, her Arts cards to charge it again. It’s just fine - but compared to the likes of Okita and Musashi, who both have other avenues for massive damage (either through critting or Bustery-goodness) I do think she doesn’t quite reach their potential.

But Bride has all that farming support, buff support, functions more than fine normally, and has awesome Arts team synergy. Arts may not always be fast, but it will for sure get the job done safely.

2 Likes

it’s just a general comment, it’s a pretty common complaint i hear. As I said she’s tiered appropriately. (I do personally feel Musashi isn’t penalized enough because charging her np with her sole arts card make it brutal to charge her np while 5th force is down and on top of that the short duration of buffs but it’s hard to argue with raw damage potential when everthing is available) . And my opinion is skewed because i value Bride’s versatility more than most.

1 Like

The current metagame makes Musashi incredibly powerful in an optimized team - but outside of those she’s a lot weaker - I agree with that for sure!

I wonder when we’ll demote her specifically because Buster as a whole becomes less powerful mainly by more targeted encounter design, but also because other Servants get strong/better support ones become plentiful.

I’m happy to see her move up a tier. Always thought she brought enough in terms of flexibility to warrant being in a slightly higher tier anyways. But I definitely agree that the buff for her NP along with the additional hit on her extra attack is enough to definitely push her up a spot. And I fully admit bias on her base damage since I got stupid lucky and got her to NP3 almost right away. So I never had an issue with her NP not being effective enough.

Have always enjoyed using her since I got her. She ended up at Bond 10 pretty quickly for a reason. Back when I had her my best support option was Hans and whatever friend list support I wanted to grab. Since I liked making teams with the servants I personally had, that lead to Bride doing a lot of heavy lifting. Even after getting my own Waver I still like using her as either one of two supports or the main attacker versus berserker or lancer enemies. I do also have Saberlot and agree he’s great at his crit saber role. Just ended up using Bride more often thanks to her flexibility beyond just dealing damage.

I always thought it was a great strength to have a servant that could fulfill two jobs well. Since I’m never going to have every servant Bride has done great work for me. Not the perfect servant, but maybe the best kind of jack of all trades. Rather than someone who is kind of mediocre while trying to do everything, her skills are set in a way that she can be quite good at either job.

Anyways, I agree with where she’s ended up.

1 Like

Yep. That’s a decent tier for both of them I think.

I think in the current JP meta, Bride’s more useful in just producing buffs for a solo instead of being a hybrid support. Would her tier change as we come to a era of Skadi in your opinion? Or would she remain the same?

Skadi plays well with Nero actually: the NP Gain is pretty nice generally. All you want to do is loop NPs after all and farm.

The issue is more a different one: Paracelsus. He’ll have both a 20% Arts buff, weak farm AoE and…50%(!) NP gain targetable for 3 turns. He’ll basically put her out of a job among Arts looping, especially with Tamamo gaining an NP Damage buff she can give to the team.

does paracelsus np hit hard enough at 400%-600% for farming? I mean geronimo isn’t a powerhouse aoe either and he’s at 600-900&

For wave 1 he can do it - that’s all you need him to do at times. He has 80% NP charge, so he can pull this off with minimal help. It depends on the node in question of course.

I knew von hohenheim was a good unit despite his low tier for high cool downs :grin:

Bride was my very first ssr. And I was like, yay! A st saber! Those lancer bosses are toast! I fire it off… Wait, that was it? My np5 saber lily from saber wars could pretty much do that much damage, but on everyone.

Then I got saberlot (np2 on a non rate up banner). Give him some oc and he will blow bride out of the water and is a self contained crit machine! To me that is worth way more than semi support functions.

But ccc will give bride a good chance to change my mind now that her np has been buffed.

1 Like

Really deserved movement. Flexibility is such a valuable point for any player. Also like the EX tier as the previous tiers did not accurately represent the 5* power levels.

4 Likes

I belive bride umu versatility and role is enought to be considered a t2 servant. i have other servant on thet placement, and it seam like they are quite close in performance.

One i do not agree is Hijikata.
I dont think he deserve such an high placement.
I personally think he is closer to T5.
No, i have medb and she is able to do her job with almost no set up, where hijikata require a ton of set up.

I have him, and i have cu alter as 5* zerker. The difference is absurd.
Hijikata ask you to have a couple of 2030, a support who is NOT merlin (becouse his third skill will actually reduce the damage of his np by incrasing his hp), something thet can damage him or at least make sure he get some hit (so kelly? but he is an art servant and they dont synergize very well) and someone who can at least give him a guts for safety.
His base card are not thet good either in term of damage unless he have lot of star and his third skill high level (even at high level the absorbtion is not garanteed becouse he have 9 base)

Dont get me wrong, i read the explenation of why you put him there with sakata kintoki, but i personally think judgeing him so high mostly for his damage potential is a bit to much.
But agein, not thet it really change much for me
i think hijikata is simply not good enought to compare him to okita and cleo (who i have, and are in his same tier)

1 Like

I’m so happy with this tier list change/new analysis. The previous analysis didn’t quite reflect my experience with Bride and it didn’t mesh extremely well with the videos I’ve seen of her performance nor the other reviews I’d read.

She’s going to be the linchpin in my team versus hard mode Kiara…especially with that NP damage boost. Need more gears and lores to 10/10/10 her. Oh well.

Something I’d like to see in future analyses is a section on how to maximize/optimize a particular servant’s kit. For Bride, say I want to optimize her NP spam potential. Do I give her Formal Craft/Divine Banquet, or do I stick her on a team with Waver/Merlin and 2030 for arts crits? I know you’ve mentioned you’re bringing back the servant synergies—this might be a good thing to include in that section.

Re:Competition from Saberlot, I believe Bride consistently outdamages him now, to the point where Saberlot needs to be at higher NP levels & critting every turn (and maybe grailed?) to outmatch her. This upgrade really cements her as the definitive ST arts saber. (At least…until Munenori?)

2 Likes

I think time will be a mover of Hijikata regardless - I was not in favour of his current placement (nor am I of Paracelsus), but he does not age very gracefully once the age of Buster ends.

We’ll have a new influx of writers soon, so we’ll probably have a large tier discussion again in a few weeks post-CCC.

I’d put Hijikata in tier 3 personally, but I am of the opinion that his gimmick is nothing more than an bonus, not something you try to actively use.

Consider the opportunity cost to make it work: on top of what all Buster crit Zerkers want (stars, attack and Buster buffs, crit buffs, and a way to keep them alive until the enemies are all dead), he specifically wants to get to low HP and then stay there without dieing. This is near impossible without targetable guts, so you’re forced to run Quetz, Paracelsus or whatever. Now you’re actually running Hiji, a regular support that provides the usual crit zerker dish (Merlin for example) and a second servant that does nothing but Guts for Hiji (Quetz at least has a Buster buff too, but she also steals some his stars because his star gather skill is slightly worse than Eternal Arms Mastery). And just having Guts means Hiji will die the next time he’s hit; a full HP Hiji can at least take a hit or two.

Compare this to simply running two proper supports that provide Hiji with damage buffs, stars and survivability, similar to what you would do for Lancelot and Raikou (outside of single-use NP nuking). To make use of Hiji’s gimmick, you give up a chunk of damage and survivability a proper second support would give you, and in exchange you get bonus damage for him and rely on playing around an extremely risky and inconsistent gimmick.

I’m convinced you get way better mileage out of him by simply treating him the same as you would any other critzerker and think of his low HP gimmick as a free bonus if he does get hit. As a buster-focused 5* Berserker with in-kit Buster and crit buffs as well as star gather, plus a single target NP, he will deal a lot of damage regardless of the gimmick. That does make him inferior to Raikou for the most part, but is still more practical than trying to make low HP a thing without him having Guts built in.

In that vein I’d definitely put him into Tier 3 or 4 instead. At best he will deal insane damage, but his best is really hard to make use of and basically impossible to pull off consistently, so he doesn’t deserve being on the same tier as heavyweights like Drake, Okita, Nero Bride and Cleopatra in my opinion.

Re:Hijikata, tbh the optimal use for him is the same as Herc: Bond CE.

With that equipped, your only job is to charge his NP gauge. Then let the guts proc and nuke. Bonus points if you take advantage of a crit turn too—that’s 130% crit damage increase before you throw Merlin’s Hero Creation and Charisma into the mix.

That’s why Hijikata is Tier 2—his damage ceiling is nigh unmatched.

That said, judging from the tier list explanations…he’s hard to place. I’d call him an even more extreme Kintoki who trades NP accessibility for crit damage farming for challenge quests.

if we’re considering the future
hes one of 3 gold ST zerks that get an np interlude
if we consider the ssrs
he’s the only one beside vlad
and vlad’s np boost was just to give him his own needed damage to even put a dent in people

hes gonna be doing big daddy damage, even without his niche
add in his decent 1st skill support
a crit gather skill thats just slightly inferior to raikou (about 2k less)
that has a MINIMUM 20% crit buff

hes basically a full on better zerk toki, but without np battery
tier 2 material?
eh probably

but nah hes totally tier 5 man,

I concur with the idea that the low HP bonus damage are not necessarily the focus. Often these low HP, well, gimmicks if you were, are traps. To unlock the best performance you need low HP, but to gain low HP you need risk. Remove that risk by bringing survivability and you sort-of remove the benefit of the bonus. After all, the opportunity cost of the survivability is to bring fewer damage buffs - or at least that is what it boils down to in most cases.

This isn’t just true for Hijikata (who I feel functions perfectly fine without that low HP - he is often slightly damaged regardless), but also Anne and Mary (Archer). It’s always the first thing people point out about them, but they are simply a really solid Buster Archer if you ignore that aspect. The bonus they gain at low HP isn’t even that massive.

That said, original Anne and Mary are not great - you do need low HP to make them somewhat usable in my eyes. And that is just putting in a lot of work for little reward when you got the likes of Kintoki strutting around.

To me, Hijikata just feels constraining, but he is an event Servant often enough at least. I don’t like using him when farming that much though - but then I prefer farming with anything that charges NP quickly (and doesn’t require Kscope in events).

For Hijikata, looking at his potential at full health is also important. He functions totally different in challenge content versus farming…low HP isn’t really a thing in optimized farming setups. (Neither is crit damage.)

But sticking him with the 50% event CE on a team with Arash, Waver, and your wave clearer of choice makes him pretty good for events. Remember that annoying dragon during Christmas? I couldn’t clear it in a single turn…Hijikata’s nuke potential is great for stuff like that. He also buffs Arash or your other farmer, assuming they have a buster NP. With Waver boosts? That’s a beautiful thing.

I mean, even with just the 1000 demerit from his 3rd skill before he launches his NP, that’s an extra 49.88% (46.09% with hp fous) on his NP. With a 20% buster buff off 13,079 (with fous) attack on a berserker. And he’ll get an interlude. That’s crazy good, especially after a Waver boost and whichever boosts your event CE gives him.

2 Likes