Ultra League Tier List

So in last few days I’ve done about 50 Sets or 250 Matches. And while I am not obsessive enough to write down every pokemon and track that kind of thing I decided to look at the Ultra League Ranking Page.

So out 4s 4.5, 5s
I never saw a Steelix, Uxie (Understandable regional) , Zangoose, Scrafty,

Once or Twice Tops: Giratina O, Shiftry, Blastoise, Megnamium,

But the list really could use some tweaking based on aggregate usage

Are you saying that shouldn’t be ranked highly because they aren’t being used often?

Also, I think some on those list aren’t popular because they need to be powered up to a high level (or even maxed), need community day moves, or are somewhat rarer and therefore harder to get a good IV version of.

Also, the ranking is kind of old (March 1 2020), so that probably explains why Cresselia isn’t a 5.

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Yep, I think it is old and needs a renewal. However I didn’t understand from the beginning e.g. why empoleon is ranked SO low. And a few other things. I guess most people rather use pvpoke anyway.

I guess the ranks are based on simulations, which don’t really reflect human behaviour that well, even though that the entire idea of a simulation. For example, Gir-A has many positive matchups, but since everyone and their father is running a charmer these days, Gir-A is often a waste of space, especially in the below 2500’s where anti-meta teams are prevalent (lack of resources prevents casual players from using triple-A teams).

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Ditto what everyone else said. Also, the stuff you see changes depending on where you are in the ranking. Below 2000, you see only starters and Giratina, get up to 2000-2400 you see a few more legendaries, Scizor, 'Goon, etc.

I think you do poor GiratinA wrong. It still beats important stuff like Charizard, swampert and all plants, so a 5 tier is still ok. It also doesn’t lose too hard vs everything else than charmers and can handle even registeel and melmetal, (with DB also alolamuk) even if it loses some scenarios. I wouldn’t rate scrafty, giratinaO, uxie, shiftry and steelix as a 4 though

My point is if no one is using something it doesn’t belong as a 4 or 4.5

Even when you consider rrsources battle leagues been out long enough to make up for that by now.

I also think when you look at positive matchups upu should only be looking at top 30 or so things used because I don’t care if a Pokemon beats infernape or not no one uses it because better options maximize role.

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Honestly that list seems kinda redundant when theres a source like pvpoke that covers every theoretical thing you need

TBH, I think PvPoke suffers from the same problem of taking into account all matchups rather than weighing the most common. There’s several things on the top of its list(s) that are not anywhere as useful or common as it’s ranking would warrant.

A consideration is, what is worth building your team around. Usually for me: Registeel. Sometimes I support it with a charmer and a fighter. Sometimes Gira-A and a Gira-A counter. Sometimes Swampert + Cresselia. Stuff at the top you can give thought to having its inclusion sway the other two spots on your team.

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I agree. A bunch of that stuff climbs the “overall” rankings because it beats a bunch of trash no one plays. Pvpoke is a good resource but to new players It can be a bit misleading. I remember when I first started out I almost powered up a crustle for UL because it was fairly high up on the list.

I never really trusted gamepress on their tier list either. It’s not updated very often and it seems most of it is just opinion based. Watching a few current YouTube vids might be about the only way to get a true grasp on what’s good and bad.

I think it also suffers from optimal baiting, which never happens. Such as machamps cross chops which are usually not shielded, although pvpoke pretends.that way machamp is way higher then it’s real value. Luckily you can do your own lists

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These lists are a starting point. Fact is, its a complicated problem to factor in the frequency or use, easy of access to certain 'mons, and what’s the ‘flavor of the week’. I’d start with the gamepress list actually and just test it out from there. Their PvP league guides do give you a good idea of what you’re likely to be facing.

I just made an Escavalier. Makes me wonder. Let’s say I lead with it but keep it with Counter/Drill Run+Acid Spray. If a Gira leads against it and I charge up and fire an Acid Spray, then flee. What if I bring in a hard counter to that Gira-A…either Articuno, Lapras, or a fairy. Wouldn’t that encourage a counter switch to Regi, Melmetal, or Empoleon for the Arti or fairy…or a fighter for my Lapras. Could I sacrifice my switch-in and bring Escavalier back or something else (if lapras) to beat a fighter? Main question, is it worth throwing the Acid Spray on Gira or fleeing first and saving enough energy for a stored drill run? When that vulnerable target was confronted with Escavalier and they knew it has Acid Spray as a possibility, is it better to throw the drill run or do the acid spray, knowing they’ll be torn whether to shield bc it could be an acid spray. Clarifying part of my question: if a Gira gets acid sprayed and a Charmer comes in, how much charm damage will be done in the second or two it takes them to process and switch***I did a test challenge myself with 2 phones and when I took a DC it didn’t do much, then I switched to Granbull. After that Acid Spray each charm does a lot. Depends on how trained someone is to immediately switch to an anti-charmer when they lead Gira. Guess a problem could be if they have an unrevealed Charizard or Togekiss on their team–leaves me with depending on Escavalier–Charmer–Swampert to try to cover as many bases as possible after my orchestration…but then I’ll hope they don’t do straight meta: Gira, Regi, Cress

In my opinion, throwing the Acid Spray would on the Gira-A and then switching to a “hard counter” is just a waste because they will just switch out and drop the debuff.

I think this is a good example of a time when having a “safe-switch” is a good idea. I personally like gyarados (shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzS_6f7EsrI) as a safe-switch.

I personally don’t like the idea of trying to sneak in a few hard-hitting fast moves before they can react although I have seen it done very well.

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I’ll try the acid spray a few times and report anything. I’m at 2527, been as high as 2572 earlier today…I gained 150 points from 2434 to my highest point level by leading Articuno. However, with my skill level, I can’t come back from a really bad lead…it’s just flat out over if they have Registeel (Empoleon/Melmetal) vs my Articuno. Trying to find a way to mute bad leads, while sacrificing a few of the spectacular ones

I regained some points at low 2500s when I lead Registeel–Clef–Toxicroak (a fun pick, should do Poliwrath but it also has no chance vs fairies). Gyarados has its switch in positives, they might be tempted to stay in but Gira and Cress also know the move coming at them is Crunch–makes them think.***Gotta think what to do if they lead Charizard vs Escavalier…pretty much over with my current half-baked plan

Try Snorlax as a safe switch. I don’t have enough candy and don’t really want to fork out the rare candy but I’ve used munchlax in GL as a safe switch and man can that fat ass bring you back from a lost lead.
In your scenario I have no idea why you would need to throw acid spray. It’s not going to shield anyway and it’s going to swap when you swap anyway especially if you’re bringing in a hard counter. You’d be better off saving your energy or better yet just instantly swapping.

I’m doing some simulation battles and the Acid Spray+switch and Charms take a huge amount of Gira health. They are just gonna farm energy when they are attacking the fairy, especially Empoleon and Swampert, they’ll end up throwing two HCs at the incoming Escavalier and burn both shields.

I’m using Snorlax safe switch on an account I made an Ultra team for today L/BS+EQ. I don’t think its for me though, great that Licks hurt Gira and Cress, but 1000% pointless to throw a BS against a Gira. Anyway I’ll try some different ideas my next rounds bc depending only on winning the lead not fruitful in 2600+

I tried leading Escavalier Acid Spray once and it “worked”…think by surprise. They lead Swampert, so I’m scared. Hc and I shield. Acid Spray they don’t shield. I bring in Granbull and get some charms in, they switch to Snorlax, I end up shielding a body slam, then throwing a Close Combat to waste one of their shields and die quick. I bring in Escavalier and counter Snorlax down. They bring in Registeel and take an unshielded Drill Run, they fire off an unshielded Focus Blast. I have 40% of an Escavalier and a full Swampert in back. They have half a Regi, 40% of a Swampert and one shield. I won by 2hp.***2nd battle Acid Spray Escavalier vs Acid Spray EsCavalier…I messed up and lost both shields and switch advantage, they lost one shield. I go Swampert charge up, them Giratina. I switch Granbull, they swith A-Muk and Acid Spray me…my Granbull still pretty much swept both, even down a shield. ----Lost next two, then won 5th, so 3-2. Almost everybody leads Swampert, some block the Acid Spray which helps. Armored Mewtwo twice in back hurt after burning my shields plus burning my Granbull

Poliwrath is ok vs togekiss with ice punch. I think it is a very valuable generalist - offensive and defensive. And escavalier makes more sense with Megahorn, only then it is a really good generalist (offensive, partly defensive - only partly since it has weak bulk). I am thinking a lot about this generalist concept. I guess it makes sense to have two of them. And there are generalists with a very weak side, such as Articuno which is usable against a lot of stuff - bare steel. GiratinA in that sense is also a generalist; I mean I even use it a bit vs Articuno as lead, though I switch out after the first icy wind. About offensive or defensive generalists; empoleon and a lot of other steel types are defensive ones, while obstagoon is exclusively an offensive one with it’s double weakness… So while you can include more than one defensive generalist, it is not wise to put in more than one exclusively offensive one. Hmmm