Useful 3* CEs?

Hi all.

So, I have question about 3* CEs in game.

Actual question: are there any valuable 3 star CEs in the game?

As far as I see, they can be replaced by more powerfull 4* and 5*, but maybe I miss something? Because I wanted to spend them to craft CE bombs, don’t wanna spend useful ones.

I also haven’t found “CE tierlist” on gamepress if such even can be created… So, I wonder.

1 Like

Battle of Camlann. Great for soloing. Only outclassed by Empieta/Merciless One (which is gone now).

Dragon’s Meridian. Low Cost 50 charge CE when you only need the charge.

Ryudouji Temple for high-chargers like Para when you only need the charge as well.

In essence that’s honestly basically it. You have stuff that nominally counts like Parted Sea (1 time Evade), but in practically every circumstance you’re better off taking your premium CEs assuming you can, and unlike with Servants you can’t really get low-Cost CEs replacing premium CEs. You can if you mean F2P in general, like how broadly applicable the free pure ATK 50 charge CEs are (AD/HNS/GS/Tenkihime/Traces/Dreamer), but that’s a different distinction and here’s a list of upcoming worthwhile CE in that regard).

9 Likes

Maaaaaybe Jeweled Sword as well with 40% starting charge and 10% NP gain. But really, you’ll only use most of 3* CEs if you have problems with cost, and you want that your last party member had something at least if push comes to shove, and they’ll need to take part in fighting, or if they’re good as is, but hey, everyone is better with some kind of CE.

7 Likes

The hydra dagger is good on Nito and Summer Scathath and any other Instant-death NP.

Dragon’s Meridian is also useful for when you need 50% NP charge but party cost is the limiting factor for the gold versions that offer extra stats.

Sorcery Ore for the 20% NP gain.

Rin’s Pendant for the 20% crit.

Dragon Kin for the 20% NP strength.

Anchors aweigh for the 200 heal per turn. (Good with Spartacus.)

Spell Time for the 20% c star drop rate.

Azoth Blade for the 10% defence.

Clocktower for the 3% NP gauge charge per turn.

Mooncell for the Arts, Buster and Crit buffs.

The Cage for the 20% NP charge and 20% NP gain.

Fragarack for the C star gather rate.

Prince of Slayer for the Special Attack [Dragon].

Motored Curaiser for the Special Attack [Rider]

Mana Gauge for the Special Attack [Caster]

Repeat Magic for 20% NP charge and 10% NP gauge.

True Shot for the Sure hit and Crit. (Mainly used for the Sure hit whet dealing with evasion and Invulnerability spamming foes.)

Chaldea Beach Volleyball again for the Super hit and Crit as well as C. Star drop rate. (Once again, mainly used for the Sure hit whet dealing with evasion and Invulnerability spamming foes.)

Salon de Marie for the 1 time evade but with negligible bonus effects of HP recovery amount and Debuff success rate.

Black Keys (all colours for obvious reasons).

3 Likes

The only R CEs I ever use are Jeweled Sword, Dragon’s Meridian, and the New Years QP bonus ones (Happiness is like a Warm Puppy, Over the Cukoo’s Nest, etc.).

Come to think of it, I keep a copy around, but I can’t recall if I’ve ever actually used Dragon’s Meridian. There are just so many 50% charge event CEs.

2 Likes

Ah, right. I’ll cop to that, I completely forgot Jeweled Sword.

Hydra Dagger is plainly inferior to simply running a CE with charge and/or ATK though like Sumo. Those that work with IK already have sufficient potential for IK in-kit and won’t benefit from a meager 5/10%. And like, very rarely will I say “This genuinely isn’t worth the time of day, it has no value”… still, this applies here.

5 Likes

I agree. With how IK rates tend to work, if Nito/Shiki can’t guarantee an IK, an extra 10% isn’t going to matter.

1 Like

Nani?! Why are you talking about gold CEs like Sumo? I thought this only discussion about 3* CEs?:thinking: I am aware 4*-5* CEs are better, but when talking about long battles when you can only bring 3* CEs I’m a hypothetical situation where you lacked any 4*-5* CEs, then Dragon’s Meridian is the best 50% charge CE. Followe by Ryudouji Temple.

The only down side for of bringing NP charge CEs for long battles is that they’re “once and done” kind of CEs. However, if the mobs can’t be 3 turned with just 3* NP gauge CEs like Dragon’s Meridian, then having a permanent IK buff would be hypothetically better as you have an increased chance of ending the fight faster.

You’ll be surprised how summer Scathath benefits from this. Her IK rate skyrockets so to speak. I say this after testing it multiple times with and without Hydra Dagger.

Now imagine Hydra Dagger on servants with higher IK rates such as Nito… Hence why I ended up grailing my Nito.

Practically, due to how death chance is calculated, +10% death rate is statistically insignificant. Most bronze enemies will die 100% of the time with just Nito’s 1st skill at 10 (+100% death rate) and at OC1 (50% base death rate). You need an extra +50% death rate before you can guarantee IK against most silver MOBs, which means a total of 200%, making +10% worth slightly less than one overcharge level on Nito’s NP, or about a 5% overall chance to IK, and IK has no worthwhile chance to activate against golds, where +10% death rate may increase your overall success chance by ~1%-ish, at best.

Hydra Dagger won’t make IK viable for challenge content, and I can’t think of farming situations in which that small a chance of IK is even worth considering.

3 Likes

You make valid points. But to my understanding this was just about anything that could help that was a 3* CE. Granted it may be better to have something else like Dragon’s Meridian. For easier 1st NP. But assuming the player only hard 3* CEs and they have to make up for the remaining NO gauge by using face cards. And assuming they were with a Nito or KH and any other IK servant that may rely on a skill to boost their chances of IK or those that done like Cú, then logically, overtime you need a permanent buff to their IK.

If you think about it, KH and Nito only have their IK skills active for 3 turns. Shiki only has her’s active for one turn for both versions. Now all K servants could loop back to back in a hypothetical situation, then once any skills boosting their IK were on cooldown, RNG would start increasing their fail rates at IK. Thus any CE that can boost IK like Hydra Dagger and CUrsed Hassan bond CE or David’s bind CE could help. Although granted those bind CEs are 4* so they automatically don’t count for the sake of this discussion.

It was an example, although replaceable with any other pure ATK CE. The only notable users of IK are Nito, Shiki (more so Assassiner), and KH. Nito very relevantly needs all of the help she can get in killing in the absence of her IK proccing, and making the best use of her huge charge.

Cheese already covered the actual math as to why even MLB Hydra Dagger will provide zero meaningful benefit for IK itself.

You also mention S. Scathach, and she too would sooner benefit from a damage amp than an IK boost, even if it was way better than what Dagger offers. She’s a very basic wave-clearer with only a single steroid type, she wants more damage outright.

2 Likes

The main problem is that Death Rate is multiplied by the target’s Death Chance, which is usually 100% for bronze mooks (so most IK NPs will automatically succeed already) around 50% for silvers (so the effect of Hydra Dagger is halved, 2.5-5% effective bonus), and either 20%-ish for gold mooks (making Daggers worth only around 1%) or 1% or less for bosses (IK is not gonna happen).

In short, Hydra Dagger is useless against anything you’d actually need a Death Rate bonus against, and most things will just die from the damage, anyway.

1 Like

Welp, I am still waiting that CE. Ain’t nuthin’ anyone can say to make me hate it. Lol

So, it seems we’ve reached an impasse…

To each their own then?
I am just waiting for the day my Ephemeral Dream EX is not just a Bygone Dream and I get a 4*-5* IK CE that is 100%+/- IK lol

Honestly, even if there was a +100% Death Rate CE, you’d probably still be better off using Black Grail or KScope on Nito.

1 Like

Functionally, that already exists in the Kiara CE as sometimes used on Nito (and I’ve certainly done so). Well, not +100% Insta-Kill, but a more meaningful buff to IK proc by way of going up from 50 to 75% OC1/3 (and 100% at OC5).

Even then though the more pracical option is scope or BG so.

2 Likes

Again, you’re assuming Hydra Dagger is going to be used against gold targets that just refuse to die. Although there’s Vida out there on YouTube of KH IK a gold enemy with tons of HP. So you saying it’s not gonna happen is false. You should say “it’s less likely to happen” since there’s an approximately 1% (can’t be asked to do the math) chance of IK.

Don’t forget that there are events like this where you can’t 3T due to “increased enemy appearance” CEs. This Nito is much better with more IK as IK becomes a means of ending battles much faster.

Battle of Camlann is good if you don’t have Empieta or are running many expensive characters.

Dragon’s Meridian offers 50% starting gauge and is cheaper than a 5 star CE so you can run it as a placeholder on expensive farming setups like Lotteries.

The Freelancer offers 30% Quick Crit Damage which is good if you don’t have MLB Antumbra or Knight’s Dignity.

That’s about it. Most of them have very weak effects and the ones that don’t still aren’t better than the easily accessible 4 star CEs.

1 Like

Well, assuming the boss in question was something like a dragon, with a 1% death rate, Hydra Dagger is worth a +0.1% increase in IK chance. You decide whether that’s worth the opportunity cost.

1 Like