Wailord on PvP?

I really like Wailord and i have one at 2200 CP. But sadly, it doesn’t perform too well in PvP for now.

When it was released, the game had only PvE and its set is really good on PvE and gyms. But when PvP came out, water gun was turned into an awful move.
I’m able to use it in Ultra league premier cup with the right teammates, but i hate the fact that it struggles to charge due to the useless water gun fast move. Its set is really good except for the fast moves, that are trash in PvE.
Water Gun is not only slow to charge energy, but also doesn’t do a great AA-fast move damage like heavy fast moves (confusion, waterfall, razor leaf etc.), so it’s totally underwhelming as fast move. Also, Wailord doesn’t have the bulkness to do heavy AAs (like a Vaporeon or a Gyarados for example can) because despite its awesome stamina-HP stat it sports a really trash DEF that makes it frail like a Crobat. So. it’s more an offensive-like pokemon than a tanky one, like in the main games it is often used with Water Spout for the same reason.

I really think it needs a community day with a new better fast move to make it more useful and a bit more viable on PvP. Other pkmns with 400 candies evolution had community days and new moves and they are all strong in PvP, and the next one will be Swablu. Also, other pkmns high HP-low def like Wigglytuff (which in normal games is weaker than wailord) are good in PoGo, so i really hope Wailord will have a place. What do you think?

Welcome @Darkleo1996!

Wailord is…kinda meh. Like you said, only having hi HP means its bulk isn’t as much as you’d think (though at lvl 50 its better than Swampert). Watergun is a very average move which means it neither pressures shields especially well nor deals very good chip damage with shields up. Surf+Blizzard is a decent moveset (like Milotic) but can feel clunky without a strategy of either chipping or spamming.

Waterfall would help slightly but a better coverage move would help more. Body Spam improves it by 5% and Ice Beam by 3%. In the MSG it could learn Avalanche and Weather Ball which in Pokemon GO make any 'mon good. :stuck_out_tongue:

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What about a new fast move that charges a lot? Surf and Blizzard-Hyper Beam are not bad as charge moves.
Like Bubble, maybe

Waterfall, Watergun, Zen Headbutt, and Astonish are the only fastmoves it could get in PokemonGO:
Wailord (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia (bulbagarden.net)
Its possible something like Whirlpool or Liquidate is added as a fastmove, but barring that, those are the only possible moves our whale is stuck with. :confused:

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I think it’s really stupid Wailord has 400 candies cost and performs so bad on PvP. Altaria and Gyarados are strong.

Some people said me: because Wailord in main games meta was never so strong. But there a lot of mons which are weak on main games PvP (like Wigglytuff, weaker than Wailord as stats and utter trash, neither with the dual typing on gen 6 it became useful, while Wailord always had lot of niches) which are high tier on PoGo.

I like really a lot Wailord as pokemon, i really hope Niantic will improve it. How can we ask a community day to them?

With what criteria Niantic can give a fast move to a pokemon?

Water Spout would be sick too on PoGo and Wailord. Imagine Kyogre with Water Spout, ahah!
Eruption - Water Spout can be also an idea for PoGo, i think.

I’m looking forward to Water Spout as well. If it’s introduced as a strong move, imagine that on Jellicent.

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Both Wailord and Milotic need some love with their charge moves. Blizzard is really bad without a high energy-gain fast move. Totally no idea why they’re given Hyper Beam. Milotic is among my top 6 favourite mon, but never evolved my hundo thanks to its lackluster moveset.

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I mean, Hyperbeam is a cruddy move period. Normal is never SE in raids and nukey moves are pretty meh in PvP… Milotic is also an expensive investment for PVP. Give it Disarming Voice and it could be a decent Dark+Dragon slayer. Water Spout could be cool but I’m betting on a Giga Impact clone if it is implemented in PokemonGO.

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It has to be able to learn that move in the main Ninntendo/Gamefreak games which are used as the source material for PokemonGO. In other words, if a Pokemon can use that move in Sword/Shield, than Niantic can add that move to the Pokemon’s movepool.

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Pretty much only if the Pokemon can learn the move in the main games. And I guess to some degree if the move would be useful on the Pokemon or not.

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I don’t think so, since in the MSG Eruption and Water Spout only deal high damage when the user has close to full HP, and that is better translated into low energy charge moves in GO.

water gun is ok, just average, as a fast move, its pro is especially its swiftness. If you have good charged moves, such as blastoise with water gun, it works well.
Problem with wailord is, that it is a weak blastoise copy atm. With waterfall or bubble it’s not much better (250 wins in 1shield, compared to 230 with WG - comparison: blastoise has more than 300), as said, it’s also not tanky.

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Report 'mon

Yeah really true, but at least Milotic has Waterfall which does great AAs without using too much charge moves and is really bulky.
Wailord instead has only the high HP as bulk, but the DEF is really trash and this makes it frail. So, being more offensive-based, Wailord just needs more speed on charging moves.
Hyper Beam is not a bad pick on Wailord btw if in late game your enemy has no shields, but Water Gun is too slow for charging it!

Yeah Water Spout can be a cool move for PoGo. Jellicent (which already is really good) would be OP with it. Octillery and Wailord will be stronger and more viable. It all depends how Niantic will put the Higher HP-higher dmg moves in the game… maybe as really fast moves like hydrocannon?

Water Gun is not average in PvP… it’s OP in PvE but it’s not so much a PvP move. It’s not 100% useless, but it’s kinda meh. It’s just similar to Bite, lot of attack speed and spam as fast move but low energy gain and low dmg… Blastoise only works with it because it’s tanky and has OP charged moves.

I don’t care too much about the outclassing (lot of good pkmn are outclassed but can work really well anyway) , but at least with Bubble it can charge fastly and spam Surf and sometimes Blizzard. With Water Gun there is too low energy gain, this can work on tanky mons but not on Wailord which sadly has a bad DEF. It’s really a pity because it has really awesome HP, but the def is really too low to make it tanky so it must work on the offensive side.

Just also remember that Wailord came out in 2018 without the PvP, its set is PvE based, in fact it is good on gyms and raids.
Lot of pre-pvp mons had that kind of sets but a lot of them were buffed with new moves after the existence of PvP. Wailord for now didn’t had a revamp like them, (like other mons) , for this reason i really hope they will make it more strong because it is cool as a pkmn ahah

Slight correction: Watergun is a 10DPS, 10EPS move in PvE which is exactly average (for comparison, Confusion is pretty OP at 12.5DPS, 9.4EPS). In PvP its 3DPT, 3EPT which is…exactly average (identical to Lick). Bite is more damage-slanted at 4DPT, 2EPT.

The problem with average moves in PvP is that they don’t play well to any particular strategy. But I think (based on PvPoke sims) that Wailord’s bigger issue is the lack of good coverage moves. Blizzard is way too nukey to use well without a lot more bulk or a lot quicker energy (like Mud Shot).

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