What moves should get buffed/nerfed in PvP?

Many moves in PoGo simply are trash.
What moves should get buffed/nerfed in PvP?

My list is:

Dragon Claw: 50D > 55D

Luster Purge/Mist Ball: 60E > 55E

Bubble Beam: 25D > 30D

Mirror Shot/Muddy Water: 35D > 45D

Rock Wrecker: 110D > 105D, 50E > 45E

Mud Bomb: 55D > 60D

Smack Down: 8E > 9E

Dragon Tail: 9E > 8E

Charge Beam: 11E > 13E

Magical Leaf: 10D > 11D, 10E > 11E

Mud Slap: 11D > 12D

Wing Attack: 7D > 8D

Metal Claw: 5E > 7E (Experimental Purposes)

Air Slash: 9D > 10D

Extrasensory: 8D > 7D, 10E > 11E (Experimental)

Feint Attack: 6D > 7D,

Hex: 6D > 7D

Iron Tail: 6E > 9E

Infestation: 6D > 7D

Acrobatics: 60E > 55E

Aerial Ace: 55D > 50D, 45E > 35E

Blaze Kick: 40E > 35E

Bone Club: 40D > 50D

Bulldoze: 80D > 90D, 55E > 50E

Crabhammer: 85D > 95D

That Rock Wrecker is too OP, even more than Frenzy Plant.

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Hidden Power


Rock Wrecker is OP, but Rhyperior is too pathetic in the Master League, despite its good stats and moveset. That’s why I want Rock Wrecker to be buffed.

Rock Wrecker ain’t the problem; being stuck with slow charging moves, no coverage moves to speak of, and kind of a “johnny-one-note” because of picking either Rock or Ground fastmove; them’s the problems with our dirt dino. Plus it has a plethora of weaknesses and almost no relevant resistances (for ML).


Rhyperior has a lot of weaknesses and slow Charged Moves. It is why I increased the energy production of Smack Down and Mud-Slap and made Rock Wrecker a much lighter move. That way, Rhyperior could see some play in the Master League. It has some coverage moves like Mud-Slap, Surf, Superpower, etc.

I’ll open this by saying I’m ok with there being some bad moves; otherwise, if every move was equally good, it would get really stale, there wouldn’t be anything notable about any species or new release, etc. So moves like Air Cutter and Charge Beam can stay in the bottom. That said, here’s what should get buffed:

Metal Claw (very few use it, making it an Ember or Air Slash clone would make those 'mon that have other good moves suddenly usable, like Lairon).
Bulldoze (has a debuff chance in MSG, very similar to Icy Wind)

NOT on your list: Bug Bite and Hidden Power. Nothing OP is using them right now but there are a ton on 'mon waiting in the wings, stuck with those moves. A damage buff would be great and add some real spice to the metas!


Hidden Power being buffed is unfair. Hidden Power provides any Pokémon having that move infinite coverage. Also Hidden Power’s typing can’t be seen by the opponent.

Bug Bite should not get any buffs. Look at Araquanid that uses Bug Bite. Despite its wacky moves, it is very strong in the Great League, thanks to its stats. Any buffs to Bug Bite will immediately make Araquanid #1~#3. A small Bubble Beam buff will not affect it too much.

Yes, Metal Claw should be buffed. Niche Pokémon such as Lairon need to see some play.

I bet that many of the moves, if they really get treated as you want them to, would get re-nerfed after we saw how annoying they’re then ;)

I agree on charge beam , plus some steel and bug moves though.

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I’m not saying buff Hidden Power to great status, but it should be usable. Something like what Magical Leaf is now (3.33 DPT & EPT) I don’t think would be game-breaking. It’s not exactly infinite coverage when you don’t get to choose which element it is. It’s too cool/unique of a move to be relegated to meh status and could provide fun variety. The fact that it can’t be seen by the opponent adds to the strategy/fun. Plus if you’re using it as a coverage move then the pokemon wouldn’t be getting bonus STAB damage on it so i don’t think it would be OP, especially on the current crop of pokemon in the game who can use it (that being said let’s buff it and give it to more pokemon).


Magical leaf would be already way too much. 3/3 or 2./3.5 would be great and i think it will be introduced at some point

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Hidden Power is a fun move. However it should not get buffed. Let’s say that Hidden Power got buffed from 3 DPT/2.66 EPT to 3 DPT/3.33 EPT.

Imagine if you got a 0/15/15 Pokémon that can learn Hidden Power. That Pokémon needs to learn Electric-type Hidden Power to be usable. You gleefully change Water Gun to Hidden Power with a Technical Machine. But damn, it is reavealed to have a Fighting-type Hidden Power which cannot provide any coverage and is worse than Water Gun.

Just like that, Pokémon with good battle IVs could be unusable if Hidden Power gets buffed and becomes the best move they could use.

Magical Leaf is already decent. However, for now, only Celebi can use that move. So I wanted Celebi to be a unique Pokémon and see some great play. I completely forgot that Magical Leaf could be introduced as a move for other Pokémon at some point.

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Celebi might need another charged move then. I am with you on that. And yes to make celebi viable with the current charged moves it would need to be buffed. Actually, I’m not sure who else could be given magical leaf…

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Cacturne, Shaymin, Lilligant, Virizion, all without a grass fast move at the moment.


I’m not sure what about this scenario is an argument against making Hidden Power a more usable move. If you don’t get the typing you want you can TM back to a different fast move or hunt for a different pokemon and hope it gets a better typing. Part of the fun of Hidden Power being usable would be hunting for a mon to make use of it. I’m not saying make it a busted move, but let’s get it to a point to where…it has a point

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Well, let’s be honest, you suggested a magical leaf clone, which indeed would be kind of a busted move ;) a good question from where on it has a point. Therefore better be careful. 0.33 more DMG or energy is a start

I’d just like it to be a valid option with its possibilities. Curious though what makes 3.33 per turn for each busted? If 3 EPT & DPT is considered OK and plenty of other moves have stats where both have a baseline/higher than 3 for each (Poison Jab is 3.5 each and I haven’t heard that being described as busted, plus others are 4/3 or 3/4). Is it the pokemon that can learn them that make it dangerous? Togekiss, Ho-Oh, and Regigigas are the only ones I could see it making an impact. Maybe an Ice Shard/Fire Spin clone would be better?

  1. Its not infinite coverage, its only one type per 'mon like @donnie said. Its a choice of coverage for any given Hidden Power user.
  2. The point is that no opponent knows the typing, that why its “Hidden”. :upside_down_face:
    2.1 If you have a single Elite fast TM, you can tell what type Hidden Power any of your 'mon have simply by selecting that 'mon to use the EFTM, then seeing what possible moves can be selected. No need to waste TMs cycling through.
  3. As is, there isn’t a single 'mon for whom Hidden Power is the recommended move and there are a lot of 'mon for whom that is basically their only fastmove. Hidden Power is nowhere near “unfair”. I’m not proposing it get buffed to the stratosphere, just to something else that’s usable, like maybe Rock Throw or Ember. Having it more damage-slanted makes sense since the point is to catch people off guard with fastmove damage.

Magical leaf is a grass move, their restricted use make the moves often a bit better per se, as you can see that’s clearly above average. In fact it’s the fourth best move after counter, shadow claw and poison jab (the latter also being of rather restricted use). Ok, so hidden power has its own “special” power in that we don’t know it’s typing, which is worth a lot, plus it can get STAB on certain mons where there are no alternatives. Tapu Fini is the best mom currently with hidden power and regigigas unleashed might be bad of course as well. Nothing speaks against a 3/3 move, watch the impact and if it’s still not enough, add a bit more, either DMG or energy and yes, maybe we end up with an ice shard clone. Could well be that that’s too much already, idk