What moves should get buffed/nerfed in PvP?

I think I like @captpepperjack 's idea about it doing more damage than energy gen. Emphasizing the Power in Hidden Power. I guess the only thing left to do is buff it and see… Get coding gang :yum:

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I do not know much about PVP but surely whatever changes they make there will still be good and bad pokemon. All you do is shake the meta and force everyone to power up new mons (which may not be a bad thing)

Instead of shaking the meta by releasing new pokemon and giving them extra moves you do it by changing the strenght of the mons.

In my oppinion you just need to nerf whatever moves Zacian has because he’s the best counter to my ML squad and I don’t have one.

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What I meant was infinite ‘potential’ coverage, not immediate infinite coverage. I know that a DPT of 3/EPT of 3 is not broken, in fact, it is kinda average. But Hidden Power will make PvP much more complex if it gets buffed.

Hidden Power will baffle many players’ brains since they have to guess what type the opponent’s Hidden Power is while still playing a live game. Pokémon GO’s PvP doesn’t offer players time to make methodical plans. Instead, PoGO forces players to make very quick plans. In compensation for that, PvP is relatively simple compared to the original Pokémon games.

So Hidden Power has the potential to aggravate many people. It is unique, but I don’t think it fits well with PvP.

I guess I’m just more OK with having that randomness for that one move/for the few pokemon that could learn it. I think it would be a fun shake up especially if it makes the people who seem to be against thinking (those who use the same 3-5 pokemon ranked in the highest tier) actually have to think more

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Blame the game because of that, not the people. If some mons are broken, mayority of people are going to use it because they want to win, and the ones that “think outside the box” been destroyed by virtue of Brute force other than skill do not help at all.

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I think it fits perfectly with PvP; most matches are centered around the fact that you don’t know the opponent’s next 2 pokemon and shield baiting is basically betting whether your opponent will figure out which charged move you’re using.

PvP is always going to aggravate people because only one person can win. I’d rather lose to hypothetical hidden power than a shadow razor leaf team, at least the hidden power team would be original.

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Most who PvP regularly will know what are the likely moves for the widely (and moderately) used species in their league of choice.

Yep, they sure will.

Bug bite to a dragon breath clone would be sweet. Bug has nothing in the fast move department that is above average. Everything is 6 or lower when you total up DPT and EPT.

Nerfs are harder. I hate the idea of nerfing a move because of all the unintended consequences. I really hope that fast moves never get nerfed again. I’m still bitter about bubble.

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I’d like something like that. I have so many mediocre to average buggies that I’ve prepped for GL just for the hell of it that would be made more usable with a buff like that.

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Agree 100% with bug and bubble buff. Azu nowadays has lost a lot of the place it had, nerfing bubble was a good move back in the day but it is pointless now. And we are not speaking of azu alone here, but a lot of mons that certainly felt the hit like ludicolo or mantine.

We’ve Asking for a bug rework for a while now, bug bite or fury cutter rework + a good charged move can shift the dark meta a bit. Let’s hope

And as for nerfing things, poison fang needs a rework for sure. It is a very oppresive move, even more when used with poison jab. And I do love nidoqueen, thing is sometimes it gets way too dull to play or face.
Poison fang is at the moment the only bait+buff/debuff move that hit reasonably hard, with the other moves been bad in damage output. Poison jab is among the best fast moves in the game, and if every 5 PJ nido gets to PF for a guaranteed debuff…

Changing the energy cost 40 will make the move slower, as nidoqueen will Need 6 PJ instead of the current 5 (Like nidoking using sand tomb).

Reducing the damage to 20/25 will also be good (same example of sand tomb, or bubblebeam, or PuP, or drain punch, or every single Buff/debuff bait move bar poison fang!)

Making the 100% chance of debuff a 50% chance. In MSG the poison chance is 50%, not guaranteed at all. I get that Niantic can do whatever they want, but they use to follow some rules of the main series games, and this is an exception. It’s odd how they do some moves so strong and others (looking at you Drain punch) are completelly garbage by no reason.

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I hear what you’re saying about the Fangs but Poison Fang at least is widely resisted, its greater damage output is therefore not as threatening*. I could however see a slight drop in damage, maybe to 30, or possibly increase the energy cost to 40. Icy Wind is another harder-hitting move that has a 100% debuff and nobody complains about that being OP.

*Same reasoning behind why so many Grass-type moves are pretty hard-hitting which I think should be why Bug gets some buffed damage, esp. fastmove(s).

Well, icy wind is slower and it’s defensive - and still on the edge, for sure among the best moves. But I also wouldn’t say that poison fang is that oppressive… Basically it’s one mon where we all see it ;)

About bubble, i don’t know. Azu is still one of the best defensive mons in GL and jelly is sometimes difficult in UL with the bubble as we have it now.

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Nido combination make some matches very dull. It just needs poison spam and shields to work, and even when resisted works by brute (debuff) force. I love it, but sometimes it just do not make sense, like beating several things like resist poison (golbat or beedrill) and/or are very bulky (cofagrigus). Just remember first remix when it wasn’t banned, or halloween cup. It shapes metas in a way that are not that good. It’s typing comes very handy doubly resisting poison, so it dominates the whole spectre and it’s very centralizing. Again I’m not saying it’s OP, but a minor adjustment in damage, energy or even debuff chance will make it less braindead, and it still will remain dominant against medicham, bastiodon, azu and stuff. Nidoqueen doesn’t Need a nerf, but it would be nice to see it

I’m in on poison fang. I was actually thinking of mentioning that. Nidoqueen is super annoying and gets borderline oppressive if it’s willing to invest multiple shields.

The poison revitalization project went a little too far IMO. Poison jab became tied for the best all around fast move in the game AND the poison crew got access to arguably the best 35 energy move in the game (outside of leaf blade). Meanwhile weather ball gets nerfed so other spammy Pokémon can’t really compete.

I like your 50% debuff chance idea. Make Nido a risky Pokémon. Don’t let people rely on it as the thing that can always win you a lead or close out if you save it two shields.

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The problem with nerfing poison fang is similar to that of nerfing bubble: that makes other mons currently using PF less usable. It’s with all moves really great with one mon only. Nothing wrong with that, but then Golbat (crobat in UL) and the rare, but sometimes used Seviper and Nidorina would probably disappear, similar to the old bubble users mantine and ludicolo. Personally, I’d also consider a poison jab nerf, would be a bullet punch clone be enough? If PF, then reduce the damage by five

By the way, lets not forget that araquanid more or less walls Nido in most scenarios and opens up the way for new tactics. We might even see a bit fewer nidoqueen (which, btw, never were as countless as e.g. azu in the best/worst days!)

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Poison Jab is on-par with the other good moves like Shadow Claw, Dragon Breath, etc. Not tippy-top like Counter or Dragon Tail. Given how easy it is to wall, the higher damage is acceptable. Much as we may dislike the odd Nido, remember how gimmicky Charmers are? Those are way worse and we kinda need Poison to deal with them. :no_entry_sign: :fairy:

Weatherball(s) is still a great move, just not busted like it was before. :stuck_out_tongue: The DPE is still much better than the spammy Poison moves.

Dragon tail is worse than SC imo, ok let’s say on par. counter is quite lonely at the top, but yes, PJ is not in the very first row, I agree. Still if we talk about nidoqueen, it’s correctly said that it’s the combination of both PJ and PF making it dangerous. If you count in both, PJ and PF, weather ball loses (though very slightly) damage-wise ;)

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For some odd reason I thought poison jab got buffed to be a counter clone…I dunno where I got that from. My bad

IMO Charmers were never much of a worry in open GL. Maybe when PvP first came out, but with all the bulky options we have now I actually think charm is a borderline bad move. Nidoqueen or not there’s still plenty of counters. In cups it’s different

WB nerf didn’t seem like much, but literally nobody plays stuff like pelipper anymore. Even Abomasnow has become pretty rare. I’ve played Both recently and you really notice how bad WB is when you square off vs an Umbreon. I’d say Politoed and Ice 9 are about the only ones that survived that nerf.

I still wouldn’t mind seeing poison fang as a 50% chance to debuff. I think GL lives and dies by the 35 energy moves and poison fang is just a tad too annoying.

I would also put dragon tail top tier. Somehow that buff just worked tho. Bravo niantic on that one.

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Nido beats araquanid in all shield scenarios quite easily going straight poison fang, as bubblebeam as a damage move is plain bad. And that’s exactly my point, most of the time people underestimate what it can do with just spam. To put into perspective as we are talking about weather ball: nidoqueen beats politoed(!) In the 2 shields despite taking SE damage spam from the spammiest pokemon in the game. That’s weird for me, and I do believe it Needs to be adjusted. Not a lot, just 5 more energy or a 50% chance poison instead of 100%. After all we all like nido and it’s not that bad a minuscule nerf. But as I said, it’s good to disagree and to know what other people say.
Azu and skarmory are still powerhouses despite been nerfed, and marowak problem had to do with a shift to WB followed by many dark types that took place in Great League.
Crobat has cross poison, an amazing move to play with, just inferior to PF.

Yes, we all hate charmers here. But poison jab alone gets the job done. And tapping is tapping, charm and PJ+PF follows kind of the same rule sometimes.

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