Why is Berserker Fran tier 2?

I do have her, and I have her raised for farming (Lv80 and third skill at 9/10), but she just seems really, really underwhelming in that role. While the writeup on her page keeps alluding to teams with debuff removal centered around her being (somehow) viable, I can’t really comment on that, since I never used her in that role (as I, frankly, have better servants for serving the damage dealer role in a team like that), but as an actual farming servant, she seems to be greatly outclassed by the likes of Arash, Spartacus and Bunyan, who are all free servants.

I mean, with full support, my Fran deals about 45k damage per enemy, while Spartacus does close to 70k. Granted, both of these numbers are a gross overkill for daily farming, but the thing is, unlike Fran, Spartacus is free, requires way less investment (read: those damn bones), doesn’t get stunned after NP, and his main steroid is stronger than hers and doesn’t have a demerit, with the only part where Fran is superior being her star gen on her NP. Oh, and aesthetics, but I think that goes without saying.

So, just to reiterate: Fran, as a premium berserker, has multiple demerits, including a self-stun, has no hard-defense or sustain, no battery, no team support, and her NP is weaker than a free 1* berserker’s… yet she is somehow a tier 2 servant? What exactly am I missing here?

@Inkaflare i believe that you would like to answer this

Because that was tierlist supposed to be

What did you feed your Spartacus with to do 70k damage? And what did you feed you Fran to do only 45k?

They both have 1k Fous pumped into them. Fran is NP1 (post-interlude), Spartacus in NP5 (obviously). Aside of that, in farming situations, they get the same external buffs (so, basically Merlin/Waver attack buffs, with the occasional plugsuit boost). Other than that, nothing (though, in theory, Spartacus could be pushed further by a Merlin mana burst buff, but as I said, in general farming situations, I never bother, as it is a serious overkill), yet there is a huge difference in NP damage output.

[Edit:] Slight correction: I did two test runs in a Fuyuki node, and the difference is less than I remembered, but still there. Fran’s NP damage per enemy was closer to 40-45k, while Spartacus was closer to 60-65k. The Spartacus mistake is probably due to me usually running him with either Sumo or Halloween princess (plus possibly piling other buffs on him), but as for Fran, I have no idea. I can clearly remember being miffed by her routinely hitting well under 40k even with steroids.

I tried the command chain calculator. At np1 with her 3rd skil at only lvl 1 and 30% atk buff from waver Fran does 44k, and Spartacus with np5 and third skill at lvl 10 and same waver does 40k.

Did you grail your Spartacus to 100 or something?

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…What? If that’s the case, both of them should have the same 50% ATK UP.Even if we count Spartacus’ Buster Up he’ll only do 43k, while frank would do 63k with her def down and NP up.
But to answer your question, it’s probably because Frank is able to deal such large amounts of damage. She’s able to kill the last waves quite efficiently.

Fran has a higher-than-normal multiplier on her NP. She also reliable clears hands/doors without support (or with just a support Waver). For example, Fran (especially np2+) is a good final wave clearer for the first round of NeroFest this year. Spartacus needs the powermod CE to clear the final wave.

Spartacus has gotten plenty of buffs to make him a good farming servant—especially that NP buff a month ago. (And that charge!) But Quick support can’t compare to Buster support (right now), so of course he’s going to outdamage her.

And, to be clear, (almost) nobody uses Fran outside of farming.

Because Fran Called the Reviewer who put her into the Tier List “Papa.”

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I actually do have Spartacus at Lv70. I grailed him way back, before his NP upgrade, to reach a certain damage treshold for farming one of the events. Still that’s less than 1k more attack on him, and still doesn’t explain the damage discrepancy.

That said, as I wrote in a previous post, I have overstated the difference, as I actually went in and tested them on the same waves with the same external buffs, and while Fran hit much harder than I remembered, Spartacus still edged her out in raw damage output.

Now granted, at NP2 I’m pretty sure she is an absolute beast (considering that Quick NPs seem to scale best with extra levels), but as far as my experience tells me, she still doesn’t seem like tier 2 material. I mean, she is the best 4* AOE berseker, and I am not going to doubt that her NP damage output is great (again 40k+ AOE damage is nothing to scoff at, and it will should scale off well with more external buffs), but considering how she is challenged in her role (and in my case, somehow beaten) by a 1* zerker, I just find her kinda underwhelming for her rarity.

Don’t be ridiculous, of course that did not happen.

If she did she would have been tier EX.

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Well, no matter what you ended up doing, the number’s you’re presenting don’t make sense. Fran has the highest AoE NP damage out of all AoE berserkers in NA (in JP, only Arjuna Alter, an SSR who is pretty darn busted if you ask me, beats her). She even beats most others NP5 while she’s still NP1 (Raikou barely gets ahead at NP5, and she’s an SSR! NP1 Raikou hitting Sky/Earth still doesn’t beat Fran either, hilariously.) NP5 Spartacus even post-interlude should be doing at most 2/3 of the damage Fran can whip out, unless you’re doing stuff like Merlin buffing her while forgetting that her NP is Quick while Spartacu’s is Buster.
Spartacus has her beat in one area - the battery. That’s what makes him unparalleled and one of the absolute best FP servants - he cannot be replaced in this regard, just like Fran in her niche, the highest damage.
That’s pretty much it though. Her card damage doesn’t quite hold up with her 4* peers and her self stun makes her really incovenient if the enemy isn’t dead after her NP. Whether that stupidly high always-advantaged AoE damage merits her a spot at T2 is debatable, but looking at the other servants in that tier, it fits - being the best at one specific thing that can be commonly used merits T2 imo. Being an SR in the regular pool makes higher NP levels feasible even for f2p as well simply by playing long enough, which will further cement her raw nuking power.
To give a specific example where she’s unreplacable: she is the best option for the Preliminaries in the upcoming Nerofest, , because it’s very tough for most other AoE servants to beat a 150k HP Archer and a 90k HP Ruler in one NP. If all you need is a wave of up to 30k HP mooks dead, Spartacus will definitely be better. But Spartacus cannot blow up 150k HP enemies in Nerofest without the +100% damage CE that has no starting gauge, while she can - so she can equip a Kscope and allow you to run 5 drop CEs in the other slots, and thus farm with maximum efficiency. Spartacus requires dropping up to 2 drop CEs for this feat to fit in multiple batteries and servant swaps since he needs 2G3L to nuke the wave.

Okay i know i was the one who summoned you,but leave my waifu raikou sama out of this :frowning:
+raikou relies more on her crits than one single turn full damage
I agree with the damage fran is capable of tho

:fgo_rinlaugh:

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Not trying to shit on Raikou or anything - she’s a godsent in Nerofest as well for the main round, for example, precisely because of her crits. It’s just to give an example of how insane Fran’s NP damage is, and Raikou is the only SSR AoE Zerker in NA.

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Understandable,i just wanted to say yhat raikou with hwr crits can spam her np so she isn’t the best to compare fran to
Best examples would be tama cat and lancelot and chacha who all struggle to launch an np without a kaleid and their damage is abyssimal when compared to fran

Fair enough, I suppose. On a side-note, I have been doing more testing, and I can’t get Spartacus to hit in the same 75k range as I said in my OP, usually his NP damage plateaus around 58-60k. I’m really starting to feel stupid, because I am getting a sneaking suspicion that it might have been some CE effect I wasn’t counting (or worse yet, I might have been doing some buffing on autopilot without paying attention and considered that as his baseline…).

That said, I just wish Fran got an upgrade like Tamacat to make her feel less like a fragile dead weight outside of her one AOE burst. Though again, I suppose the same applies to most other AOE zerkers as well…

Oh, and I also have another issue with Fran, outside of direct gameplay: raising her skill levels is a bloody nightmare due to the amount of bones she requires. The reason why I always felt she was underwhelming might have been precisely because Spartacus (and now Bunyan) can do 90% of what Fran can, without demanding the same kind of resources. I suppose I might have subconsciously wanted to see something more spectacular in exchange of the investment.

Lancelot shouldn’t qualify either, he’s diet Raikou in terms of Crits.

Raikou’s np damage is Fran tier against her niches Earth&Sky or Magical stuff though. Also the stars, that’s probably the reason why they will never reinforce that NP or Lancelot’s.

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Yeah i know,believe me when i say that i have been using raikou a lot xD
+lance works insanely good with skadi

I specifically didn’t compare her to Tamacat and Lancelot because Fran completely shits on them - like, she hits almost twice as hard actually. Raikou is an okay comparison because her niche NP damage is almost as high as Fran’s, and this demonstrates my point in how nuts Fran’s NP damage actually is, to hit as hard or slightly harder even than a niche-hitting limited SSR while being significantly more flexible in target choices and easier to get. In exchange, Raikou can do a ton of other things than just nuking a wave once. She is one of the best Berserkers period after all, not because of her NP damage but more because of the full package of good AoE damage + niche hitter + crit power + stargen + hard defense.

@GabeZhul If Fran ever gets an upgrade, I doubt it will be anything like Tamacat’s - they’d probably further bump up her damage or add an NP charge before removing her stun, because it’s pretty much part of Fran’s identity to hit super hard, but only once. Tamacat is a regen tank with mediocre damage on the other hand, she is deceptively tanky for a Berserker with her massive health regen on NP, her NP drain and defense buff.

Skill levels are definitely pretty bad for her, but luckily you can skip Galvanism altogether as it doesn’t do shit for her.