Worth investment of fighter pokemon


I’d like to see your though if you can choose only 1 of these fighter for gym and PVE purpose dueto limit of stardust. what would you invest between 1. 14/15/14 shadow machamp, 2. 14/14/15 Lucario, 3. 14/12/15 Conkeldur


  1.  .

  1. Shadow Machamp
    -best DPS,DPS^3×TDO
    -machop candy is not very rare
    -Good in PvP on ML
    -shadow maybe have got frustration
    -steel type->many resistans
    -good DPS,TDO,DPS^3×TDO
    -He destroy Giovanni’s Persian
  • candy for lucario is rare
    -Gurdurr evolve free when you tread him
    -Bigger CP than Machamp and Lucario
    -Good in PvP on ML
    -Best TDO
    -Dps is good but Machamp and Lucario have got bigger
    -candy for conkeldurr is quite rare
    -IV is only good
    1st place Machamp (shadow)
    2nd place Lucario
    3rd place Conkeldurr

As the DPS/TDO charts have been done above, no need to repeat that from me. Depending on your candy situation and how far you want to power up, you’ve got three routes for me:


Neither the Lucario or Conk are lucky
You haven’t yet invested dust in them and therefore the shadow is at base level 8, the other two, say, L20.
Candy isn’t a problem
You’re wanting to power up to L40, or very high 30’s

  1. Shadow Champ, best on paper and likely best in practice a lot of the time - but if you’re powering up to high 30’s or 40, the dust ramp-up is very steep. This will costs you 315k dust, assuming the 375 candy is available

  2. Lucario and Conk would cost 225k dust 248 candy each to L40, leaving a residue to get one to, say L30. As shadows are more fragile, using the residue to get shadow champ to, say, L27 or so would likely be a worse investment unless you intend to invest in it immediately afterwards.

  3. For the same dust, you could get both the Lucario and Conk to L36/37

Thoughts based on my personal style:

If you’re looking at getting them to Level 30, the dust cost narrows and shadow champ becomes more favourable. With Timburr/Gurdurr being a popular trade pokemon because of the 200 candy evolution saving and with Timuburr being a common T1 raid, you may well find yourself with a lucky later. Luckies aside, that’s a great Lucario and you’re unlikely to hatch/trade a better one unless you’re really fortunate. None of the IV’s are bad, the Champ and Lucario are great, again, the Conk you’ve got about an evens chance of improving it and again, I’ll always max an 87% lucky before a 98% non-lucky because of the savings.

If you truly can’t decide, have you a favourite? If so, pick that, they’re all great fighting types and none of them will let you down. I suppose, in short, you can’t really go wrong with any of those.

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Since you pointed out the Lucario stats - any idea whether the shadow machamp with these IV or the Lucario with these IV is rarer? Lucario has the IV floor, but machamp is more common of course… Guess in the end it is about the same, although Lucario can be traded, so shadow machamps IV values worth more… Plus there were quite some special Lucario eggs available recently, so not that rare anymore as it was in general. Personal experience: have two very good lucarios (151514 and 141514) in the back, but no >90 percent shadow machamp.

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I’m thinking that it would probably be easier to improve the Lucario because of the egg IV floor, plus potential trades and particularly the inevitable lucky but those fighting rockets are really common so an afternoon in town (in the car in my case) might yield a good one. I’m generally happier to power up a worse shadow (anything above 70% or so) because I know how rare they can be. Most things I max are lucky, just because the dust makes it more viable. Few exceptions but most stuff I have about 35 is lucky.

To be honest, I’d be more than happy with either of those, my best shadow 'chops are 2x 13/13/11 and 13/12/14 but I’ve yet to commit to evolving and powering up. Both my maxed lucarios are luckies, neither above 90%. I’ve one Conk, 13/12/15 (lucky) maxed.


Specifically for gyms, against Blissey with Zen Headbutt + Dazzling Gleam, Lucario has the highest TDO and DPS^3*TDO because it is weak to neither move:

Similar results against Slaking with Body Slam or Play Rough and Snorlax with Zen Headbutt + Body Slam, Heavy Slam or Outrage. Of course, Lucario is weak to Earthquake, but it is easier to dodge. Shadow Machamp is best against Chansey, as her Dazzling Gleams are pathetically weak even when super effective.

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Yep, thanks. I also am a bit unsure which shadow machamp I should power up, but in the end they’re all worthwhile when they have at least 12 attack and overall 70 percent or so. I have one 15-9-11 and one 11-12-12, and I power up the first one, but keep the second as well…

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I’m the same, I’ve a few 15 and 14 attack but with slightly lower Def/Sta, or some 15/3/13 type spreads. I suppose, ultimately, it’s all better than a non-shadow but for the expense, it’s got to be significantly better.

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Excellent cost analysis! Based on that information, I would recommend the Lucario, especially as it is likely more future-proof. It’s got a Mega coming down the road that will make it OP as a fighter and reasonable as a Steel. Cost is likely to be much cheaper than the Shadow Champ, so you can sink that into powering it up higher or investing in another 'mon. Plus, the Shadow boost might get tweaked and then those investments may not look so good.


My only advise when it comes to shadow pokemon is your gonna want the highest defense stat possible since it has a lowered defense already from the shadow form, and shadow machamp as good as it is won’t be at full potential until you can have rock slide and cross chops both, so otherwise I would go for lucario since he’s just a badass and one of the best imo Pokemon for GBL but still really only good with 3 moves, if your not gonna add a third move to machamp to at least have frustration and “X” then wait on it, but also maybe wait till the spawn pool changes too since Machop is spawning a lot along with machoke, battle more grunts and find a even better Machop to invest in, I got a 99.9 iv one that I’m just itching to evolve and third move, he’s a pretty good shadow mon. Side note: abomasnow is probably the best shadow to invest in, with weather ball it’s a beast, barely matters that he still knows frustration too, he just wrecks everything :face_with_head_bandage::dizzy_face::crazy_face:

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U def want more of a 0 15 10 or even a 0 15 15 shadow machamp is made of glass and only lasts on battle for a matter of seconds

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Nope, it’s not that much of a difference with IV. Of course I would always go for the highest stats anyway, but whether it’s a ten IV def stat or a 15 - that’s not really a difference.

But I am interested in why you think that Lucario is good in PvP? Where do you use it? In UL it makes sense, but it is not one of the best in my opinion I

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It depends what you want the pokemon for

Assuming it is for raids:

I would recommend you build a squad of 6 fighters up to lv30-35 before you power any single one.

If you already have this squad then all three are very good. I’d personally start with shadow machamp since your chances of finding a better one are very slim. Timburr and Lucario are likely to come from eggs or lucky trades so your chances of finding a hundo are better.

To be honest you won’t regret any of them!!! they are all fantastic pokemon and more or less future proof. They will see plenty of use in raids and gym battles.

For PVP I am no expert so I wouldn’t dare to advice you.

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  1. Machamp base stats; Def is 159, Sta 207 so between 0-15 makes around 8% difference. The one OP is 14/15/14 so we’re splitting hairs there.

  2. For Gyms and PvE, as per OP’s question, nobody wants a zero attack stat. Neither is Rockslide a must, there’s Rampardos, RW Rhyperior, Tyranitar (both shadow and standard) and a host of other less viable, but still better than RS Champ options.

  3. For shadows, as it does 20% more damage and takes 20% more damage, increasing the DPS overall, the IV’s actually don’t really matter anyway unless, again, you want to get your scientific calculator out and start working out fractions of percentages. So, in PvE, it will still do almost identical damage as its non-shadow counterpart of the same IV, but faster.

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Personally I’m using Lucario: its Steel subtyping makes it way more reliable, and Shadowball provides so much coverage. You can also have it run PUPunch and give it a try with Rocket leaders, it’s an absolute beast!

Also, go for the shadow only when stardust is not an issue. They are kinda expensive


If you already have a team of 6 Machamp for raids then work on Lucario.

Otherwise go with Shadow Machamp for raw power… and it looks so much cooler than the other 2.

O_e why would you? Fighters are icky.
Fight dark? Use fairies! (Bugs arent as strong)
Fight rocks? Use water or grass! (Maybe ground)
Fight ice? Use rocks! Careful if half ground (Fire is too fiery and metagross is about as mean and icky as fighters)
Fight metal? Ground! (Same note on fire above)

Screw normals, work around resistances instead :)

For me, personally, because Fighting-types can easily handle all five of those types and are the only ones that can take out tanky Normals without taking half of forever. Particularly Lucario, who often has the best DPS output (when something isn’t doubly-weak to something else), and resists all the STAB moves of those respective types, doubly resisting Rock. Fighting-type coverage is just too valuable to ignore.

covers Lucario’s ears


I like to use the most useful/useable pokemon personally, and as @BlameScott mentioned fighting covers 5 types and Shadow Machamp is the most powerful counter to almost all of them so if I’m going to choose, I’d prefer to put all of my eggs in one well-invested multi-purpose basket. If you’re willing and have the resources to make 5+ separate teams of 5+ different types of 6 pokemon (assuming we’re talking PvE/raiding) and truly dislike fighting types that much honestly more power to you. That is indeed some intense dedication.

Also I hope Lucario was covering it’s ears as well, that gorgeous punchy I-beam