Yet another "how would you fix skills" thread

Hey there. I had a nasty case of insomnia, leaving me with a lot of time to think about superfluous stuff last night, so I decided to throw some of my thoughts into the basket and see what you guys think.

So, I suppose we all know the holy trinity of vanilla “meh” skills: charisma, tactics, and intuition. This time, I want to discuss the first of the three.

Charisma, by itself, is not a “bad” skill per se. There are a ton of variants of the skill, most of them with added benefits, such as Merlin’s battery, Ishtar’s crit boost, the Onis’ NP damage boost, or the trait based double-buffs of Eli/Stheno/Jalter/Moriarty/etc.
However, all of these just make the continued existence of plain, vanilla charisma skills all the weirder, especially the low-level versions with their paltry 12% attack boost. So, here’s my idea on how I would upgrade them in a lore-friendly and balanced way to bring them in line with the rest of the pseudo-charisma skills in the game. For the record, all the below buffs would automatically include boosting the base attack buff to the standard 20%.

OG Artoria: Considering her lore, especially regarding Excalibur and Avalon, I could actually see two distinct ways to upgrade it: either focus on Avalon, and add a turn of invincibility on her charisma (or if we want to be a bit cheeky, we could go with something silly like giving her guts, and after it triggers, it would give her one turn of invincibility for some extra survivability), or we could focus on how Excalibur is the sword of the planet, designed to combat the biggest threats, so there could be instead and added 50% special attack and defense against Threat to Humanity enemies.

Salter: As far as the lore is concerned, Salter is supposed to be slower but tougher version of Artoria with more raw strength. Because of this, I would incorporate her bond-essence’s effect into her skill by giving her 100% chance to decrease an opponent’s defense by 10% every time she hits them with a Buster card, stackable with the aforementioned craft essence.

Lancer Artoria: Since Rhongomyniad is all about protection and preservation, I think a solid 20% party wide defense boost would be appropriate.

Lancer Alter: As the leader of the Wild Hunt, I would say giving her three turns of 30% special attack and defense against Humanoid enemies sounds about right, giving her both more damage output and a bit more staying power, even outside her one turn burst.

Iskandar: He is already at 20%, and the rest of his kit already gives a ton of boosts to both himself and his allies, so I don’t think he needs any further buffs.

Gilgamesh: Gil is powerful already, but thematically speaking, as the oldest hero-king, his charisma should provide some extra buffs, so… how about an extra 20% attack for Earth and Sky servants on Archer Gil, and an extra 20% for Man and Star servants on Caster Gil. Sounds about right for the cocky bastard.

Rama: Let’s focus on his anti-demonic niche by giving a party-wide 20% special attack boost against demonic enemies. It would be situational, but there would be some fun synergies there.

Penthesilea: She already has a lot of buffs, but you can never have enough, so how about throwing a massive 50% male special defense on her, just for fun?

Well, that was all on my end. Which ones would you find fun, which ones do you think are still boring, which ones do you think you could do better? Discuss away.

3 Likes

It seems a really nice idea and lorewise too ( from wiki “a Last Phantasm, forged by the planet as the crystallization of the wishes of mankind stored and tempered within the planet”)

As for skills, Radiant Road seems fine as it is; i would add to Charisma a 3 turns Def Up for “good” aligment servants.

Legit.

I wouldn’t mind Ozy having something like a Def up to his. They could remove the def up from his imperial privilege, and replace it with a crit boost. So Imperial Privilege has a chance to boost atk and crit, and then the def up would be for all.

Fun fact: Saber Alter has had two interludes but she’s still stuck with the worst charisma and worst intuition (everyone with intuition c eventually gets upgrades) in the game. Both interludes were just lore and SQ… :fgo_jeannu:

For her, maybe NP gain over time (10% for 3 turns or something) because she’s supposed to have nearly unlimited mana from Sakura and the grail. But that seems more like an upgrade to intuition than charisma so maybe a def up or invincibility for herself (the lore says her armour is heavier but stronger). I kind of like the idea of incorporating her bond CE effect into the skill but I don’t think DW would make her bond CE so redundant.

The Alter we have is technically not the actual alter from the visual novel. It’s complex and self-contradictory, like a lot of things in the Nasuverse, but apparently this Alter is a version of Artoria who decided to follow in the footsteps of his father, and instead of a chivalrous knight, she became a well-intentioned-extremist tyrant as her method to protect her homeland. It also apparently involves her having a literal dragon-heart that is now fully active and keeps her in full mana-burst 24/7 or something, but let us be honest, with all the side-materials and the hilariously expansive lore, it is kind of hard to keep track of the characters.

I mean, technically the OG Artoria we summon in FGO is also an alternate version of her FSN counterpart, Lanchuria is also different from the Lion King, and Emiya is somehow aware of both the events of FSN and Extra, even though in the latter he wasn’t summoned from the Throne but from the Moon Cell’s internal database, so who the hell knows anything anymore… -.-’

Well, the thing with Emiya is that both incarnations are pretty much the same aside from a few things, so the share memories in the way Shirou did during UBW and HF.

Gilgamesh doesn’t need more offensive buffs. Also why did you think Iskandar doesn’t need more but Gil does? In particular, the Gil Archer buff you suggested would be stepping on Tesla, as those are his bonus damage traits on his NP. Not sure about the Gil Caster one you suggested, but I think the archer one is definitely stealing from Tesla, and he’s already got beef with Edison, so he doesn’t need more.

The other ideas seem okay though.

1 Like

You seem to be confused (or my description wasn’t clear enough): Gil’s upgrade wouldn’t deal more damage against servants with said traits, but boost the attack of his allies with said traits. Thematically my idea was that Archer Gil is the one embracing the Age of Gods, and so he would boost servants associated with divinity or mythology, while Caster Gil is the one who returned to society and intends to make humanity prosper, thus boosting servants who defined mankind’s progress.

As for Iskandar, the main issue is that his skillset already possesses practically every major buff type. The only thing I could think of would be either adding some utility to his Charisma (say, cleansing mental debuffs from the party), or adding some anti-trait damage, but I can’t think of one that wouldn’t step on someone’s toes.

That would make Gil even more broken than he already is, and I’m completely down with that. Considering Tesla and Ishtar are more or less his equals now, sometimes even better, I feel like there needs to be something for him to stand out as the definitive King of Heroes, and oldest hero.

Just a shame Arjuna has to suffer such injustice :frowning:

As for a response to the actual question, I think for Ozy, charisma (sun/pharaoh) could just provide a party-wide NP buff along with the attack buff, kinda like Drake’s voyager of the storm (Drake’s “the woman who felled the sun,” and Ozy’s the reincarnation of the sun god, so there’s some connection there). Alternatively, if we wanted to make him more broken, it could provide a per-turn NP charge (10%, 3 turns), or passive star gen (10, 3 turns). Or, if we went a less broken and far more niche route, it could just further increase attack for other pharaohs, since as far as the other pharaohs in the game are concerned he’s the greatest of them all so it makes some sense for his charisma to be extra-strong for them.

1 Like

Give nightingale a 3 turn Class neatrulaty like caster umu since we cant change her Class. Thats all i ask really

8 Likes

Hijikata’s Disengage.

It’s an awkward skill—putting a heal on a servant who does more damage when he’s low on HP.

So a few ideas to fix it:

1.) Turn the heal into a delayed buff—only heal him AFTER the turn is over.

2.) Add a Tactics-like boost (or selfish NP strength boost) to the skill.

3.) Give it a starbomb so it combos with his 3rd skill and let’s him set up a crit turn.

4.) Guts when DW?

Well, he has one on his bond CE, but I assume you mean actually part of his skillset, which would also be nice. I do think the Disengage skills need adjusting, as the heal isn’t much and the debuff removal won’t work for the really important debuffs like stun, so it ends up not being very useful in most cases.

@throwawayFGO1 The only problem with comparing Drake’s Voyager of the Storm to Ozy’s Charisma, is that Voyager of the Storm is a sailing skill, a combination of Charisma and Tactics. So another effect would be better, unless you come up with a reason for Ozy to have Tactics, as some skills have similar effects despite having different names and lore.

Ah, that makes more sense, though lore-wise Archer Gil is also rejecting the Age of Gods, it’s just that Caster Gil is more mature due to losing Enkidu and all that and has taken the king role more seriously. So it’d be better to find another idea for their charismas since that doesn’t quite work unless they both had the one you proposed for Caster Gil.

I got him in April and JUST got his bond CE. Also, incidentally, am about to 10/10/10 him—need one more lore.

His Bond CE will get powercrept hard as soon as we get a Guts + Crit CE. We already have the NeroFest 3 CE—which has a 1HP guts and gives pure attack. If Hijikata’s crit damage wasn’t so stupidly huge I’d say gg.

Agree that Disengage is kind of useless where it really matters, but it’s nice for NP seal, attack down, max HP down, dispelling terror, and so on. It’s more so that for Hijikata specifically the heal functions like a demerit.

Fair point, just would like either more health or a heal over time effect replace it, as especially the lower ranked Disengage 1500 heal is quite low.
Especially when BB has a skill that heals double that, has 1 turn lower cooldown, and has an added nullify debuff effect. I get that her skill is supposed to be a tad OP, but even giving the 1 time nullify debuff effect to Disengage would be appreciated if they aren’t going to adjust the health.

Yeah, BB is a cheater so all her skills are loaded. She’s never a fair comparison. But excellent point.

That NP strengthening was appreciated, but Hijikata Disengage Buff when DW?

Imo Disengage is one of the last launch-era skills to get buffed. Have we gotten ANY disengage buffs yet?

Nope, none yet.

Rank A: 2500 heal

  • Siegfried (not high priority, he’s tanky already)
  • Darius (he needs any sort of buff, his skillset is extremely basic)
  • Ibaraki (she has her defense skill at least, so not too big a priority, but still would be helpful)

Rank B: 2000 heal

  • Hektor (he just got a defensive buff, so not a priority)

Rank C: 1500 heal

  • FSN Cu (he’s already good at soloing, so not major priority, but buff would be nice)
  • Cu Caster (would be nice to get a star bomb or something to combine with his crit skill)
  • Hijikata (the heal doesn’t help his damage and is the lowest heal with disengage, so it doesn’t really help him survive much either)

I think something like Fujino’s Remaining Sense of Pain is a good improvement to Disengage. Maybe no guts, but add in a delayed heal and give a damage cut.

I did some quick searching, and Nursery Rhyme’s ‘Meanwhile’ skill removes debuffs, heals 2000 health and gives a 40% NP charge, and the Chinese Ruler has a similar skill, except 3000 health and 50% NP charge, both with just a 1 turn longer cooldown. So I think it would be reasonable to increase the cooldown of Disengage by 1 and add an effect so it’s more useful like in these other cases (this is with me leaving out the healer servants that surpass the effect and apply it to everyone, as well as Sanson’s case where it heals for 3000 and is targetable while having the same cooldown).

I’ll bring this back around to the beginning of the chat, as I’ve noticed some servants were skipped in the Charisma discussion. I’ll list each by skill rank.

Charisma E: 12% buff at max

  • Gawain got buffed already to 20% which seems to be the standard for any Charisma with an extra effect
  • Both the Saber Alter and Lancer Alter versions of Artoria (perhaps this means they’ll get the same buff later on?)

Charisma C: 16% buff at max

  • Elizabeth had hers buffed already, once again to 20%
  • Alexander (it’s at a lower rank due to his age, so any sort of buff would have to be an added effect)
  • Gaius Julius Caesar (kinda surprised it’s not higher, considering how he talks his way out of things)

Charisma C+: 17% buff at max

  • Ushiwakamaru (likely a lower rank due to her being in child form, Yoshitsune servant when?)
  • Sakamoto Ryouma (difficult to buff because he’s a welfare, but we can hope)

Charisma B-: 17.9% buff at max

  • Queen of Sheba

Charisma B: 18% buff at max

  • Medb got buffed already to 20%
  • Saber and Lancer Artoria
  • David (if he doesn’t get an anti-massive buff to his NP, then maybe they’ll add it to his charisma)
  • Rama
  • Ozymandias
  • Penthesilea

Charisma A: 20% buff at max

  • Iskandar (if he gets a buff, then likely an added effect since it’s already at 20%)

Charisma A+: 21% buff at max

  • All three forms of Gilgamesh
  • Quetzalcoatl

Do you think that the A+ rank charismas should be buffed despite being past the standard 20% mark or not?